KS cleared from maphack issue

    Diese Seite verwendet Cookies. Durch die Nutzung unserer Seite erklären Sie sich damit einverstanden, dass wir Cookies setzen. Weitere Informationen

    • KS cleared from maphack issue


      KS cleared from maphack issue

      A rolling stone went through the community yesterday when KS was officially banned for maphacking from the MYM tournament. However, the decision has been now revised.


      What happened?

      Suspicious elements have been reported in a game this Monday, and an investigation crew has been formed to look into the matter.


      Why the haste?

      If a cheat has been reported, it must be investigated immediately. Especially if the team is still participating in the tournament and about to progress to the next or later stages.


      What were the suspicious moments?

      There were four suspicious moments in the game so far;
      1. Selection of a hero in fog after a team fight by a dead player. ( papaxiong )
      2. Selection of a spectre after he disappeared in fog for the time he was shopping. ( mikebz )
      3. Selection of a venomancer after he disappeared in fog. ( mikebz )
      4. A POTM arrow which hit and stunned spectre in woods without any sight, knowledge of direction or any other indicators of the spectre being there. ( mikebz )


      Were there any other reasons for suspicions?

      The admin team was mostly suspicious of mikebz, since he was not playing with the other players from a LAN centre. He was the latest addition to KS roster, and 3 out of 4 suspicions were concerning his actions.


      How did you investigate?

      The crew has analyzed and watched the replay over and over again ( with the help of fast forwarding tools like gg-game.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=93992 ). The replay and the issues have been looked into so often that admins could even point out the suspicious seconds without looking at the replay.

      Replays from followup games have been also analysed, but nothing suspicious was found.People from outside have been involved and asked for their opinion. That being IHCS admins, prior tournament admins, as well as professional and semi-professional DotA players.


      What did you find out?

      We have found out that there is a bug in WarCraft 3 replays, which keeps a unit selected even after it entered the fog - although the player who had it selected does not see it anymore.


      What was the initial verdict?

      The verdict was that there was no map-hack present from what we could see or prove.


      Why was the initial verdict changed to a ban?

      We have gathered new intel from GG-Game Client and Dota-League Anti Cheat developers which led us to believe that we made the wrong decision. The evidence was at that stage overwhelming ( selection while shopping, arrow into exact forest position without prior knowledge, checking up on hero items after hero was out of range ) and the input of people that seemed to be experts in that matter. Already explained evidence, has been rephrased as new in new cases - a mistake which should have never happened.


      Issues with the process, which will be changed in the future

      • Too many people were involved who had nothing to do with it.
      • Not enough people were involved who had greater knowledge of the game engine. Particularly the creator of the map and the crew around him were important factors that should have been included in the process beforehand.
      • The haste. Although 1P kept quiet about this process, the growing number of people involved in the process, and the upcoming matches of the team forced us to make a fast decision.
      • Communication. Not being able to get in touch with KS based on timezones and them not having time for a longer conversation was unfortunate, especially with the time restraints.
      • Opinions of "experts", or what we believed would be experts have been taken for granted, while they were undecided or changed their own verdict afterwards.
      • The venomancer scene has been presented as 100% proof, since there was no view for the other team around that hero at that time ( according to screenshots and video ), that is however wrong as the scourge creep set has been just killed and provided the 'fade out' effect and the selection of a hero within 1 seconds afterwards.



      Unnecessary public reactions

      Racism - be it one or the other way. Several prides ago the administration was accused of hating Russian people, now it is about hating Asian people. With the next case we will most likely be racist towards a country of the next affected team. For once and for all : the team that is being judged against is seen as neutral, admins do not act upon nationality of teams, and have no agenda in doing so neither. Prime Defending lives from the versatility, of the inter nationality of participants - this was also a reason why Prime Nations was created. There is no point in racist remarks towards admins, and there is absolutely no point in racist accusations towards other people in the community!

      Repeating or spamming of unproven facts or rumours to make the verdict invalid immediately. No, not all 5 KS members were playing from the LAN centre, and the red circle-issue also has nothing to do with a or b versions of WarCraft. Admins have been aware of most issues, and tested a lot of things before any verdict went out. This was not the first maphack investigation in the crew, and (unfortunately) won't be the last.

      The slandering of KS in public comments and the opposing teams behavior were both unnecessary as it also transferred conversations into racist comments.


      What will happen now?


      The verdict is changed into "Innocent until proven guilty" - we cannot say anymore with 100% certainty that the players in question have maphacked. We can only raise suspicions. It is in our duty to apologise to the team and the players.

      The affected players will be officially cleared and unbanned from both tournaments and KS will be able to proceed in the Prime Defending tournament in the playoffs stage to the next round.

      A public apology from the myMYM Prime Defending administration towards KS.


      Quelle: MyMYM
      ( 15:50:01 ) <@meetya> wo is affe
      ( 15:50:12 ) <@meetya> der muss unser logo nochma überarbeiten
      ( 15:50:21 ) <@meetya> wenn das logo so verkleinert is
      ( 15:50:25 ) <@meetya> dann könnte alex feeds
      ( 15:50:30 ) <@meetya> auch als alex leads gelesen werden
      ( 15:50:31 ) <@meetya> (
    • Schön, dass das jetzt weitgehend geklärt ist. :]

      Mit Hexor im Ventrillo, er ist vor kurzem lvl 40 geworden.

      "Seit dem Zeitpunkt an dem ich Garena installiert habe und lvl 1 war, wollte ich das Potm Icon haben."

      "Ich hab das Potm Icon seit ich lvl 1 war^^"
    • Mich hätte alles andere gewundert um ehrlich zu sein oO
      ALTER DER IGEL WOHNT JETZT HIER!

      Was du bist hängt von drei Faktoren ab:
      Was du geerbt hast, was deine Umgebung aus dir machte
      und was du in freier Wahl aus deiner Umgebung und deinem Erbe gemacht hast.
    • Schön, dass das nun geklärt ist. Ich hatte es auch für ziemlich unwahrscheinlich gehalten, obwohl schon ziemlich krass gewesen wäre.

      Btw. Juff dir kann ein Stein vom Herzen fallen :love

      LastFM Profil | MySpace
      von Juff: Ey hier waren doch irgendwie gestern noch 2 Seiten... 8| Und ihr spamt hiergefühlte 32 voll! Hart! Gj, Spamm0rz!
      Manchmal beeindruckt ihr mich wirklich! Das hätte ich in meinen besten Tagen nicht geschafft...
    • Berthi schrieb:


      KS cleared from maphack issue
      What did you find out?

      We have found out that there is a bug in WarCraft 3 replays, which keeps a unit selected even after it entered the fog - although the player who had it selected does not see it anymore.

      roflcopter, das wusste sogar ich schon vorher, solange man nichts anderes anklickt, bleibt der Kreis auf dem Held.
    • Echt peinlich das weiß wirklich fast jeder, aber den ist
      wohl keine andere Ausrede eingefallen :D
      Friedlich durch das Leben geh'n
      Ist gar nicht mal so leicht
      Wieder steht so ein Idiot vor mir
      Und fragt mich: suchst Du Streit
      Ich bin doch nicht zum Spaß hier
      Sag ich, kann man das nicht seh'n
      Einer von uns beiden muß jetzt geh'n
    • Ist interessant wieviele leute plötzlich wussten das die anschuldigungen bs waren aber sich in ihren alten posts wohl verschrieben zu haben scheinen....
      ( 15:50:01 ) <@meetya> wo is affe
      ( 15:50:12 ) <@meetya> der muss unser logo nochma überarbeiten
      ( 15:50:21 ) <@meetya> wenn das logo so verkleinert is
      ( 15:50:25 ) <@meetya> dann könnte alex feeds
      ( 15:50:30 ) <@meetya> auch als alex leads gelesen werden
      ( 15:50:31 ) <@meetya> (
    • bashtoM schrieb:

      Jop ist doch klar, dass das bei den Meisten so ist.
      Yay, da steht MYM banned Ks wegen Cheatens, go Ks flamen! ~~
      Find ich schade jo :(
      Aber geil fand ich die Kommentare von slasher und ns im da forum ^^
      Omg they recognized that we all are maphacking.
      ALTER DER IGEL WOHNT JETZT HIER!

      Was du bist hängt von drei Faktoren ab:
      Was du geerbt hast, was deine Umgebung aus dir machte
      und was du in freier Wahl aus deiner Umgebung und deinem Erbe gemacht hast.
    • Berthi schrieb:

      Ist interessant wieviele leute plötzlich wussten das die anschuldigungen bs waren aber sich in ihren alten posts wohl verschrieben zu haben scheinen....


      Also ich wusste es nicht, nur ich dachte das MYM so etwas simples bedacht hat.
      Friedlich durch das Leben geh'n
      Ist gar nicht mal so leicht
      Wieder steht so ein Idiot vor mir
      Und fragt mich: suchst Du Streit
      Ich bin doch nicht zum Spaß hier
      Sag ich, kann man das nicht seh'n
      Einer von uns beiden muß jetzt geh'n
    • omg das nennt ihr GUT? mym, vorallem s1rro und snake haben innerhalb von einer minute den kompletten ruf von KS zerstört, sie des schlimmsten E-Sportsverbrechen angeklagt was es gibt und das OHNE STICHHALTIGE BEWEISE UND AUSSAGEN VON ASIA-HATERN (wie metro...)
      sehr lächerliche aktion von mym, aber da ich sie für extrem kompentent hielt, ging ich davon aus das sie noch iwelche beweise in der hinterhand hatten...
      und jetzt was? KEINE entschuldigung, NEIN, sondern nur ein
      The verdict is changed into "Innocent until proven guilty" - we cannot say anymore with 100% certainty that the players in question have maphacked. We can only raise suspicions. It is in our duty to apologise to the team and the players.

      also sorry, aber mein vertrauen in die mym admins ist weg...klar, jeder macht einen fehler, aber man sollte danach verdammt nochmal die eier dazu haben, ihn öffentlich zuzugeben und sich zu entschuldigen, und zwar s1rro und snake und nicht iein anderer admin mit so einem halben ding...sorry, aber das geht einfach mal gar nicht klar
      ich hoffe nur KS ist nicht allzuschlimm getroffen...wünsche ihnen jetzt echt den 1. platz zu holen und es allen nochmal zu zeigen!


      Guten Morgen an muh, sleepy, proudbavarian, seren, incognito, zinnsoldat, qory, juff, sic, banez-, arrow^gunz, cloud, zenarius, Tobi und den rest des DS-Stammtischs
    • was quatscht du denn da? ich finde es positiv zu erkennen, dass bei den top-teams auf so etwas geachtet wird. ihren ruf sollten sie spätestens jetzt wieder zurück haben, denn jeder der das mit dem mh mitbekommen hat, wird auch das gelesen haben... wer nicht? wird ks nicht gross schaden...
      mein englisch ist nicht all zu gut, aber es ist ja eigentlich keinen schaden entstanden und somit tuts so eine entschuldigung schon. zudem denke ich nicht, dass nur snake und sirro entschieden haben, sondern dass da mehrere admins involviert gewesen sind. sei froh, dass sich diese leute so um einen fairen wettkampf bemühen, gibt es nämlich nicht mehr oft im sport :(

      wie du selbst gesagt hast: jeder macht fehler...
    • hier nochmal ein quote vin MYM|Maelk dazu, finde es fasst alles gut zusammen...der kerl is echt klasse^^

      Whether Ks did or did not maphack isn't really the case any longer. The real issue at hand is how the administrators of myMYM dealt with this issue.

      Before I'll start my share of things, I urge everyone that has spewed out their anger towards Ks not giving it any second thought before flaming them, to apologize, edit their post or in some other way retract their past opinion of them. After all, aren't we all innocent until proven guilty?

      First off, a timeline of how things went down and who was involved is probably needed:

      ---

      [1P] is dumbstruck by the fact that they just lost with a perfect combination of heroes and a fairly early radiance on Spectre. To a ridiculously bad 5v5-lineup consisting of what seems to be true 'joke picks' even (See Sweden versus Kazakstan). Obviously, this can only be explained by their opponents hacking.

      The Greek team continues to inform the administrators of this outrage and expects justice to happen (remove Ks from the tournament and have [1P] proceed instead).

      Administrators doesn't take such allegations lightly and decides to look into the matter. To solve the situation, TeG-Snake - best known for his past success at the Greek LAN-party 'Bits'n'bites' which he won with his team of Greek friends, none other than [1P] - offers his services.

      Meanwhile, another administrator asks several respected community-members for their professional opinion. These names includes, besides Snake himself, Lego (IHCS Head Administrator), Metro (Former D-A Competitive Section Leader) and also confronts a few players within the organization with the evidence namely slahser and myself, Maelk. Others might have been included, too.

      I won't go into details about who of the others confirmed their suspicion of them maphacking - and I don't blame them. However, S1rro was told by both slahser and myself not to go live with this accusations as the evidence was vague at best and the replay-viewer was commonly known to often include bugs. Instead, we urged him to at least wait for them to play other matches to check up on these games and keep an eye out for them - Nothing wrong with monitoring a particular team's games.

      Apparently, and this is by all means my own impression of things, Snake pushed S1rro hard on the matter and claimed to have talked to anti-cheat experts, getting confirmations from GGC-Admins about Ks not being on LAN together and so forth. From past experience, S1rro has been a fair and levelheaded guy always wanting was righteous and fair and I can only believe that he was truly convinced of their guilt thus going live this despite having been recommended not to.

      [1P] is informed about the administrators final decision and is asked to schedule their match with kM as soon as possible. The news goes live, as does hell for both Ks and later on, the administrators behind the decision. To make the whole thing even more ironic, kM is fast to take down the hotheaded Greeks and defeats them in what can only be explained with them using hacks. Seemingly, those who had caused unjust certainly felt what true justice was all about.

      All this in a matter of 2 days?
      ---

      With all these informations roughly taken from within my thick skull, a remembrance of how it all happened through my eyes, one could be fast to agree that the administrators acted too abruptly and should have though twice before clearing up this matter. I guess they didn't want to hesitate in something they seemed so certain of.

      Obviously, if their innocence is somehow proven, Snake and S1rro will be forced to resign. However, I don't think that is necessarily the best solution. With Snake, yes, I'll be the first one to kick him out on his ass and feet, but S1rro is one of the best things that has happened to myMYM and its PriDe tournaments since TaZz was around, god bless his soul. He's overly devoted and I doubt we would have as many as well as smooth tournaments going without his contribution. Critics would call him biased, but he's really not. He's fair and, for the most part, takes a lot of time to think things through and get all sides of the matter before reaching a decision. When people says he's been bad in past decisions, I bid you to ask yourselves this: Did he not just follow the rules, that the teams agreed to upon signing up? It's hard to go wrong if you're acting according to them. Regardless of what happens, I truly hope he somehow ends up staying - Cause I enjoy playing PriDe and Prime - And a big part of those happens thanks to him.


      Closing up, I'd like to stress that I don't know whether they are innocent or not. I think they're clean. I hope they're clean. What I do know is that things was rushed with too little evidence too soon and that some of the people behind the decision was incapable of judging in a such important matter.


      Guten Morgen an muh, sleepy, proudbavarian, seren, incognito, zinnsoldat, qory, juff, sic, banez-, arrow^gunz, cloud, zenarius, Tobi und den rest des DS-Stammtischs