NS über die Prides

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    • NS über die Prides

      Weil Affe sonst emo wird, in die Ecke geht, sich ritzt und weint,
      post ich das nochmal in einem Extra-Thread hier.




      This article originally has been created & posted at prodota.ru by Virtus.NS and translated by Markiz. We posted this because we want u to know, how things are really are by Virtus.NS' point of view.

      Persons represented:
      Army, main MyM admin, his duties include control over DotA tourneys
      TaZz, one of the first to promote dota in the beginning, and the first to succeed. R.I.P.
      Metro, one of the biggest fools amongst MyM admins
      MilkaCow, Metro's assistant
      Sirro, Metro #2

      Prologue. The Beginning.

      I can't recall how it really started and who pressed the buttons, but something like 1.5 years ago the first MyM pride was held. That tournament was the first one to have such a number of teams (uh, 50?) and had a great success.
      It was the first time American and European DotA schools struggled in such a battle. Fortunately for us, Europe won under the flag of Russia; SAY_PLZ woke up famous. Everyone was happy with organization except for the host problem. Tour was carried in the Battle.net and there were several host issues. Those times we had neither observers in dota nor ggc (oh well, actually there was ggc, but it was too buggy) so lags were a problem. However, considering the average dota skill then, they didn't mess the tour.

      After first Pride, the PriDe tournaments are reputed as an unofficial world dota cup.

      Chapter 1. What happened next?

      Those days Pride was run by Army & TaZ, who handled it extremely well. The administration realized that the tournament is gaining popularity, the idea is cool, dota is promising and the MyM organization doesn't mind that discipline at all (that's why they opened up their dota division 2 months later). So the second Pride was announced, and games were going in new and unknown platform - GG Client, instead of laggy Battle.Net.
      Second and third Prides are all silk so far, there almost weren't any people dissatisfied. However, I got to notice that all the organization was a sort of amateur one (no news, missing replays, no normal way for most people to know the results). But again, it wasn't of a great trouble anyways at that time, and everybody was happy.


      Chapter 2. To be continued…

      Pride 4 was a bad omen. That was the first Pride to have such a tremendous amount of scandals, gossips and behind-the-stage talks. That was the first pride, were this ugly trend took place, which is actually the reason for writing this text.
      For those who don't remember, SAY_PLZ and maGe, two big contenders for the title, were banned from the tourney. Oh well, that seemed quite just - using non-roosted player Horon. However, admins didn't have a single piece of direct evidence. I have guts to confess - yes, we used fakes. Well, it was actually Horon playing for us after being banned. Again, admins didn't have any circumstancial evidence.
      Whatever, maGe and SAY_PLZ were banned.
      At the same moment, lots of other teams violate various rules but don't get banned. Instead they get Warns. Interesting fact: by that time, there were no rules telling when warn or ban should be given. All that mess was made up by a single admin who was later removed.
      Another step to turning Pride into Farce was done.
      The title was won by the third russian team, DoTa, somehow admins didn't seem to consider them serious enough treat to ban.

      Chapter 3. PriDe #5 - #9

      MyM.Prides 5 to 9.

      Metro is admin no longer (thanks to Army), same for milka cow.
      Generally speaking, those Prides were quite quiet, although the tension was increasing and the problems hadn't really disappeared.

      What am I talking about?

      Once Prides had got worldwide recognition, its administration seems to have decided to make it a full-scale world championship. However, they decided to begin neither with the prizes (oh, 400 bucks prize? Thank you very much!), nor with the organization (oh, neutral host? Have you ever asked MyM admins to search for neutral host? You should try it for some unforgettable experience) but with greater penalties for rules violation (did I mention the rules are dumb? Now I do: the rules are dumb).

      Did you know that WG were one step away from disqualification on the very first day just because one of the admins had lost their mail? The admins decided that WG didn't comply the tournament rules - they didn't confirm the result during playday and of course DKPhobos's post in game comments on site wasn't enough.
      The only reason why WG weren't disqualified was their recognition among dota teams, they play at IHCS and MyM know them. If they weren't as famous, they wouldn't have a chance to become top-2 of the last Pride.
      You know, the most favourite MyM admins' phrase is "rules r rules" (translation: we don't give a f*ck).

      The story with Lomiki team certainly deserves separate discussion. Lomiki were one hour late for their game with SK.Gaming and received deflose. Formally, it is just, they weren't there on time and there's nothing to discuss.

      But...SK were ready to play that match next day and MyM admins not. "Playday is over, you must play games during the playday." Hello, is anybody home?
      Team EMG hadn't come for their game, not in an hour, not in 5 but it is okey. Sirro said that there would be an opportunity to get that game played. Later. The fact that Lomiki didn't have any chance to play the game and had all the rights to have their defwin didn't seem to worry Sirro.
      Double standart? Oh noes, just someone's dumbness, I suppose.

      MyM admins are trying to transform their tour into something official, formal, serious and important...into somewhat like WC3L for DotA. Now compare the quality of organization, coverage and prizes. Am I the only one to smell farce here? Admins are trying to make players take their tour seriously, like a job with (sic!) $1000 (one thousand north american dollars) salary for 3 teams 5+ players each. It must be a joke.

      Do you know why VP forfeited to WG during the last Pride?

      Just imagine:

      We are taking part in ASUS Open right in the weekend when we got to play our game with WG at the same time. LAN Party with $2500 for the first place compared to just another internet battle for $400. I had dozens of talks with Sirro asking him to let us play monday evening or, even better, tuesday. Sirro was ruthless. He told us that we were delaying the tour and was quite determined to give both team a defloss if we hadn't told him results on sunday evening. Oh well, we decided that it was better to let at least WG have some chance and forfeited.

      On a side note: do you know for how long Denmark had delayed game with Russia during the MyM Nations Winners Finals?

      Two days. Those two days I was begging Sirro for and those two days I couldn't have. Sirro would gladfully give Denmark even more time. Fortunately, Maelk is a man of honour and understands that it looked like mockery.

      Chapter 4. More, more, more!

      Sirro: "No stream for this game, thx to our russian friends"
      I am still eager to know in what way we made streaming impossible and why he is acting like a racist ass with all that "rusians are ugly, they are the reasons you don't have stream" craptalk. I still can't see any connection between his empty head and our nationality.
      Thus he said during the Russia-Denmark winner final.
      You won't believe me if I describe what Sirro was doing during our Grand Final with Ukraine!

      So, we had found the neutral host (I think I have already mentioned what happens if you ask admins to search for host). Sirro came when we were in process of picking heroes. We remember that Sirro is always eating spikes in every game thus ruining the match and sometimes whole GGTV translation. So we asked him: "Sirro could you leave plz? We have another streamer". We wanted to call Maniac who hadn't got a single problem with streaming before.
      Sirro refuses because he's the HEAD F*CKEN ADMIN.

      Then I asked him a question: "Do you lag in games coz you are streaming or you will lag in any case?" He answered that streaming was the reason. I tried to convince him let us bring the guy who can stream. Sirro said "NO" and again his "RUSSIAN WANTS NO STREAM, KKKKK" thingie. I asked Army to do something and it seems it was Army that made Sirro spam (in the middle of the game!) "GO RE WITH STREAMER NP".

      WTF IS THAT SHIT?

      Well, I admit that there actually was a portion of our fault in that Smile's case, I wouldn't say we were absolutely right. However, 4 players from SK team had played in MyM Nations and MyM Pride at the same time. Weird logics of MyM admins sometimes gets beyond my comprehension.

      Chapter 5. The problems

      Sirro foolishness is not the only problem since Sirro has assistants: m3rcy, dotabunny, rinoa, visarka, ssserenity, snake.
      So, all of these are quite useless clots of protoplasm who never do anything.
      Well, bunny/visarka/rinoa write various Match Tickers, news and other garbage. No problems with them although they are of no help to players.
      I dunno what m3rcy is responsible for but I'm absolutely sure what ssserenity does - Nothing. During the course of tour I asked him about various stuff more than 10 times. Every time he gave me just-another-link-to-the-rule-"you will find it here for sure!" or sent to sirro "sry i am too small to answer such a question".

      Snake showed himself in action. Once. He DISPOSED kS. Not to mention how he had to apologize two days later.

      Those were our admins. You know, I can even understand Sirro who was the only one doing anything. He's having hard times definitely. But if you are a HEAD F*CKEN ADMIN and you wanna be a leader then find yourself better assistance. If you cannot, resign.

      So we got to the point. Problem is discrepancy between the status of the tourney and its organization.

      1. Host support. Guys, we've got some problem with hosts here! Why don't admins just create a database which would include all the known good hosts?.. It really becomes a non-sense when we got to search for host for our game vs. Israel for 6 (six) hours. Israel team couldn't play on any host so admin decided to (sic!) reschedule the game for the next day. It must be the sandstorm which would stop messing up Israel internet or something. I don't get it.

      2. Money/Time
      Tour takes TONS of time, partially because of the host problem, partially because they're going to shoot us all if we don't do everything before the deadline. By my slightest calculations, MyM Pride 9 took 240 hours (10 full days) of real life time from me. I received $150 as a compensation (or I would get the freaking $400 in case we were first). Try to understand, dear sirs, that if you're trying to make Pride a serious tourney, you got to make it serious in everything at once. It's amusing to make people play in the manner you do for such prize money.

      3. Double Standart
      The last item is the most scandalous one but it is and it's always been there. MyM Admins do anything by their will. Metro, for example, was known to say phrases like "I hate russians". Apparently, 2 strongest russian teams were thrown out of the Pride 4 by (guess who?).
      By the way, did you know that MYM/Denmark/Germany can get defloss only if they will agree with it? Otherwise, they get more and more (and a little more!) time until they can gather and play. Other teams (like Lomiki) are given a defloss in an hour.
      Trust me, that's not just another whiner's crappy talk. I am quite known person in dota-world, Russian National team captain and I can swear by all my authority that it is all true.

      Another curious example. MyM.Nations. Group D. Almost no games played since the group is a funny one: 2 asian teams+Israel. They've got lots of issues with net dunno why. Russia got on the first place, second place was obviously to be taken by Singapore or Malaysia. So imagine what, ssserenity (yeah, that guy who is never doing anything) asked me (no kidding, that was me!) who, in my opinion, should deserve play-off, Singapore or Germany. I was surprised and then questioned him: "how can germany be there when singapore won in the match against em?". The answer was bright and shined with some cool logics: "Singapore played 1 game less"
      Oh shi~
      One could see a possible connection between Germany having two MYM.DOTA team players and the admins willing to let Ger play next stage so much. I am absolutely sure, that it was actually LevenT who refused to play play-offs with that team and that was the only reason why we saw Singapore performance at all.

      Epilogue

      What is this all about?
      It is all about MyM becoming world dota centre (pride, nations, the upcoming league).
      Of course, you may say smth like "pff, ESWC is near. everyone's gonna forget mym". Maybe, may be.
      But have you ever thought about who will be judges at ESWC? Isn't it easier to take admins from the biggest online tourney series? Huh?

      What if MyM will start organizing their tours on LANs? What then? What are we going to get?

      We've got to develop and the main role should be given to clear-minded people rather than random fools.

      I wrote all this to make society pay attention to the problems of the biggest dota tourney series.
      Everyone sees the problems but keeps silent. Help me break this vicious circle.

      P.S.
      "Russia - Team warned for its behaviour in this edition of MYM Prime Nations. The warnings will be available in this and the next edition of the tournament. If a team is given 2 warnings, it gets auto-disqualified and banned from the next tournament."
      Another genious decision from sirro. Imagine what, I do not know when and for what we were given this warning.


      Von mir editiert.
    • Hmm klingt ja alles toll aber doof das nur eine Seite sich dazu äußern konnte, da der Beitrag im DA.com Forum, GGC Forum und Dota League gelöscht wurde. Wär ma Interessant gewesen was MYM dazu sagt. Es gab ja bisher nur die Entschuldigung von S1rro üder den ablauf des Finales vom MYM Pride.
    • Wäre echtmal interessant was mym dazu sagt ... denke aber die russen sind auch nicht ohne... und eins muss ich halt auchmal sagen rules r rules! das sollte sich niemand drüber hinwegsetzen dann ist auch alels paletti!

      Wenn der gute NS so Probleme damit hat sollte er sich vielleicht nächstes mal nicht dafür anmelden fertig ... ist ja keiner gezwungen damit zu machen!
    • von außen betrachtet schreibt dort ein junger, ziemlich aufgebrachter mann über seine persönlichen probleme mit nem turnier und seiner organisation.

      jedoch, wenn man bisschen mehr in der szene drin ist kann man sich mit seinem text identifizieren.

      ich persönlich stimme ihm in jedem einzelnen punkt zu.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Kaku ()

    • Demogorg schrieb:

      Wäre echtmal interessant was mym dazu sagt ... denke aber die russen sind auch nicht ohne... und eins muss ich halt auchmal sagen rules r rules! das sollte sich niemand drüber hinwegsetzen dann ist auch alels paletti!

      Wenn der gute NS so Probleme damit hat sollte er sich vielleicht nächstes mal nicht dafür anmelden fertig ... ist ja keiner gezwungen damit zu machen!

      Das Problem was NS damit hat sind ja nicht die Regeln sondern das sie für einige Clans oder Nationalteams so ausgelegt werden und für andere halt ganz anders. Das stört NS halt, wenns stimmt auch vollkommen verständlich ist.

      Ersimbajunge schrieb:

      rly epic. aber warum wird der überall gelöscht?

      Im DA.com Forum sagte ein Mod das sie es löschen mussten weil damit eine neutrale Orginisation angegriffen wurden ohne eine Gegendarstellung von Ihrer Seite aus dazu zu posten. Soll heissen im DA.com Forum dulden sie es nicht wenn jemand angegriffen wird ohne eine Gegendarstellung dazu zu posten.

      PS: Der orginal Kommentar vom DA mod ist hier.

      PS2: So NAZ ein Mod ausm DA.com Forum hat jetzt bestätigt das das löschen des Beitrags im DA GD ein versehen war und so nicht passieren sollte. Zu finden das ganze hier.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 4 mal editiert, zuletzt von hundekopfjaeger ()

    • Habs auch so verstanden dass es nicht um die Regeln geht sondern darum, das diese Regeln für andere Teams günstiger ausgelegt werden und so. Außerdem beschwert er sich ja noch über eindeutig überflüssiges wie "I hate Russians". Frage: Hätte man sicg nicht zuerst an Mym bzw die Admins selbst wenden können? So von hinten durch die kalte Küche posten ist ja auch keine Art. Genauso ist das auch Unsinn sowas direkt zu löschen. Aber was red ich, ich kann eh nicht beurteilen ob das stimmt oder nicht.
    • naja sie wurden damals schon zu recht gebanned wegen spielershare imo, aber von seiten der admins war damals auch viel hate

      heute macht halt sirro fast alles, und ich kann mir gut vorstellen das mym eben bei ihrem tour auch nicht ganz unparteiisch sind.
    • bin mir auch recht sicher dass der zumindest bis zu einem gewissen grad subjektivität reinspielt, aber trotzdem ist bestimmt auch viel wahrheit dabei. in jedem fall überaus interessant das ganze, mal schaun welche auswirkungen das haben wird.
    • kann schon sein, dass admins ab und an nen paar rusische teams benachteiligt hat, aber sie sind auch nur menschen und machen ne super arbeit overall find ich. Und mit solchen hate texten wird es nicht unbedingt besser und sirro wird sich sicher nicht wegen sowas ändern denk ich. Mag sein, dass da nen paar russen pissed sind, aber wie gesagt admins sind auch nur menschen mit vielen fehlern wie jeder andere auch und was wäre pride gewesen ohne sirro?
    • Alex[GP] schrieb:

      kann schon sein, dass admins ab und an nen paar rusische teams benachteiligt hat, aber sie sind auch nur menschen und machen ne super arbeit overall find ich. Und mit solchen hate texten wird es nicht unbedingt besser und sirro wird sich sicher nicht wegen sowas ändern denk ich. Mag sein, dass da nen paar russen pissed sind, aber wie gesagt admins sind auch nur menschen mit vielen fehlern wie jeder andere auch und was wäre pride gewesen ohne sirro?
      Du solltest definitiv mal an deinen Stil arbeiten. Kommas sind überbewertet; auf jeden Fall in einem Forum

      @ Topic:

      So ist das.
      Solang die Admins nicht gewählt werden, wird es zu solchen Benachteiligungen kommen.
    • KinA du könntest jeden zweiten Beitrag in der Hinsicht bearbeiten wenn du es drauf anlegen würdest. 'Denglisch' ist nunmal Bestandteil deutscher Foren im Internet. Wenigstens spamt er nicht Smilies.

      @topic: Es lief viel schief im letzten pride. Besonders plötzliche Regeländerungen welche durchaus undurchdacht erschienen. Der angesetzten Zeitplan war völlig idiotisch und kaum einzuhalten in der "Gruppenphase".
      @KinA: man kann admins nicht wählen. Von wem? Der breiten Masse der Dota Spieler? Das wäre das totale Chaos da die meisten nicht mit dieser Verantwortung umgehen können. Das Internet ist kein Platz für Demokratie. Direktwahlen der breiten Masse wäre, wie ich mich wiederholen muss, das totale Chaos dem jede Objektivität fehlen würde. Es bleibt nicht viel übrig als auf fähige Admins zu hoffen die allerdings meistens Mangelware sind. Hier wäre eine gesunde Rotation eine mögliche Lösung die für frisches Blut im Stab sorgt und somit Lobbyisten das Dasein erschwert. Korruption in kleinem Stil ist nunmal ein großes Problem in größtenteils anonymen Internetveranstaltungen.
    • Imo schwer zu urteilen ohne es selbst erlebt zu haben.
      Das "rassisten"-Gelabber gibt es aber immer , sobald ausländische Teams mal rausfliegen und maybe es gerade zufällig zwei russische TEams sind ( vllt auch nicht zufällig , aber die Gründe kennt man eben nicht , wenn man nicht eingeweiht ist) .
      Deshalb empfinde ich persönlich den Text als sehr übertrieben und zu subjektiv.
      Ansonsten natürlich interessant , aber eigentlich auch nicht wirklich was neues das bestimmte Teams bevorzugt werden...
      ...und außerdem bist du ein Lauchkopf!

      Last name "ever", first name "greatest"
    • KinA. schrieb:

      Mensch, jetzt ist mein persönlicher flame gegen Alex verpufft.

      Schande über dich!


      dann musste dich halt wieder ritzen und emo spieln ((

      zum thema: admins wählen ist mit das dümmste, was ich bisher gehört hab, vorallem die aussage, dass es danach fairer zugehen würde, wie gesagt admins sind auch nur menschen und es wird immer fehler geben, und wer soll bitte admins wählen können/dürfen? jeder einzelne user? na das wird lustig
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