Angepinnt Der PC-Hardware-Thread

    • ardet4 schrieb:

      Zukunftssicher kaufen ist bei Grakas nie optimal. Lieber jetzt etwas, was die momentanen Anforderungen erfüllt und dann eine 4K-taugliche Karte, wenn es soweit ist.

      Natürlich lohnt sich das nicht. Aber er wollte einen Gaming PC und dafür taugt die 770 imo nicht mehr richtig. Ich kann damit ja nicht mal mehr The Witcher 2 auf vollen Einstellungen spielen mit 1440p :(
      Und Witcher 3 lässt nicht mehr lange auf sich warten.

      Für ne Runde Dota 2 und Casual Games reicht die natürlich aus. Aber dachte das sei hier nicht der Anspruch bei 1000 bis 1300 Euro Preisklasse. Und jetzt kaufen und in nem halben Jahr upgraden lohnt sich doch auch nicht.

      Yarox schrieb:

      In einem Monat kommt die 880 Ladys :thumbup:

      Warte auch nur auf den Preisdrop für ein Upgrade :welle:
    • In nem halben Jahr kommen vielleicht die TIs raus. Aber keine neue "Generation".

      Heinrich von Kleist schrieb:

      [...] [D]u hast an mir getan, [...] was in Kräften [...] eines Menschen stand, um mich zu retten: Die Wahrheit ist, daß mich auf Erden nicht zu helfen war.
    • Will mich ein wenig in dem Thema aktuelle PC-Hardware schlau machen, hätte da jemand einen Artikel oder sowas ähnliches, dass sinnvoll ist?

      Bin zu ungebildet in dem Thema, um entscheiden zu können, was Unsinn ist und was nicht.
    • Das ist ein weites Feld. Was genau schwebt dir vor?

      Heinrich von Kleist schrieb:

      [...] [D]u hast an mir getan, [...] was in Kräften [...] eines Menschen stand, um mich zu retten: Die Wahrheit ist, daß mich auf Erden nicht zu helfen war.
    • Der_Busfahrer. schrieb:

      ardet4 schrieb:

      Zukunftssicher kaufen ist bei Grakas nie optimal. Lieber jetzt etwas, was die momentanen Anforderungen erfüllt und dann eine 4K-taugliche Karte, wenn es soweit ist.

      Natürlich lohnt sich das nicht. Aber er wollte einen Gaming PC und dafür taugt die 770 imo nicht mehr richtig. Ich kann damit ja nicht mal mehr The Witcher 2 auf vollen Einstellungen spielen mit 1440p :(
      Und Witcher 3 lässt nicht mehr lange auf sich warten.

      Für ne Runde Dota 2 und Casual Games reicht die natürlich aus. Aber dachte das sei hier nicht der Anspruch bei 1000 bis 1300 Euro Preisklasse. Und jetzt kaufen und in nem halben Jahr upgraden lohnt sich doch auch nicht.

      Yarox schrieb:

      In einem Monat kommt die 880 Ladys :thumbup:

      Warte auch nur auf den Preisdrop für ein Upgrade :welle:


      Es geht halt um pre-builds, finde da mal was besseres in dem Preisbereich. Vor allem wenn du nicht nur auf die fps/$ sondern auch auf die Qualität (und lautstärke) achtet wird die luft ganz schnell ganz dünn.

      TW2 hat auch SSAA bei den Max settings dabei, das bringt natürlich fast jede karte in die Knie. 1440p sind auch nicht so verbreitet als dass man sich da groß sorgen drum machen muss wenns nicht explizit gefordert ist.

      Dass nVidia mit GM204 nen pricedrop bringt fände ich extrem unwahrscheinlich, und AMD wird mit Tonga da vermutlich auch nichts machen. Höchstens GM200 und AMDs nächster enthusiast chip (Maui/Fiji/Burmuda, wirklich bescheid weiß da niemand. Bei AMD sind zZ alle leaks gestopft)

      Yarox schrieb:

      In nem halben Jahr kommen vielleicht die TIs raus. Aber keine neue "Generation".


      Letzter zeit nicht auf die Gerüchteküche geachtet ? GM204 und Tonga kommen Q3 raus, und noch größe chips dann Q4/Q1.

      #YOLO schrieb:

      Hat sich da etwas geändert oder halten X70er + OC nicht mehr mit X80er mit? War früher billiger, wenn ich es recht in Erinnerung hab und hat auch ewig ausgereicht.


      nVidia hat ihre namensgebung geändert. die x70 ist jetzt dass was die 560 ti oder 460 war. Srsly, die preise für GK104 (und GK110) sind unverschämt.

      zocktol schrieb:

      Will mich ein wenig in dem Thema aktuelle PC-Hardware schlau machen, hätte da jemand einen Artikel oder sowas ähnliches, dass sinnvoll ist?

      Bin zu ungebildet in dem Thema, um entscheiden zu können, was Unsinn ist und was nicht.


      3DCenter ist immer ein guter anlaufpunkt, ansonsten müsste man wissen wofür du dich interessierst.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Akkarin ()

    • Akkarin bitte lies meine Beitrage doch mal richtig, sind doch auch nur ein Satz lang.

      Ich habe darauf hingewiesen, dass die Maxwells in einem Monat kommen und somit die neue High-End Generation darstellen. Daraufhin wurde erwidert, dass jedes halbe Jahr eine neue "Generation" erscheint, und es sich nicht lohnen würde, zu warten. In einem halben Jahr können wir aber davon ausgehen, dass die TI's rauskommen und mit absoluter Sicherheit nicht schon Pascal.

      Heinrich von Kleist schrieb:

      [...] [D]u hast an mir getan, [...] was in Kräften [...] eines Menschen stand, um mich zu retten: Die Wahrheit ist, daß mich auf Erden nicht zu helfen war.
    • Bitte selbst Beiträge richtig lesen :thumbup:

      Ja, ein halbes Jahr nach GM204 & Tonga kommt keine neue gen, allerdings kommt der Rest von Maxwell und VI erst n halbes Jahr später raus. Preiskämpfe werden mit Tonga und GM204 vermutlich auch nicht anfangen, sondern erst wenn die ganze Gen draußen ist. Von daher ist die aussage "Warten kann man immer, 6 Monate später kommt wieder was neues raus" schon richtig.
    • Einen allumfassenden guide gibts leider nicht, nur verschiedene guides zu den einzelnen teilen. /r/buildapc schreibt grad an was, aber das kann vermutlich noch dauern bis was fertig wird.

      Im allgemeinen ist 3DCenter zu empfehlen, haben auch n klasse forum (solange man vom OT fern bleibt). Gibt regelmäßig sehr gute artikel zu grafikkarten und nen allgemeinen überblick über die performance der karten.

      Für CPUs hat anandtech vor kurzem was ganz gutes geschrieben: anandtech.com/show/8312/state-of-the-part-cpus

      reddit guide
      #Introduction
      ##Or: What is a CPU and why do I need it ?

      The CPU, short for __C__entral __P__rocessing __U__nit, can be described as the heart of any PC. Almost everything that is not directly related to graphics is done by the CPU, be it the AI and any interaction in a game, the calculations in spreadsheets, or photo altering in Lightroom.

      Therefore, the CPU determines the speed of everyday activities, work, but also your frame rates in games, especially in multiplayer games and those with heavy AI and physics. And that almost independently from the graphical settings you choose.

      This guide will cover an explanation on what programs need which requirements and how you can know the performance of a CPU. To keep this guide concise, some material will be omitted or simplified. This guide is meant as an overview and an explaination for some technologies like HyperThreading, not as in in absolute, in depth explaination for CPU architecture design.

      If you want to know more about the sockets a CPU is installed in head over too (Link to Mainboard guide), if you want to know more about CPU cooling, (link top the cooling guide) can help you. Advice which CPU to buy is under ( reddit.com/r/buildapc_editors/…ich_cpu_fits_my_needs_.3F ), simpler recommendations can be found (here link to the buyers guide, currently, r/buildapc_editors/wiki/cpub00), but it is strongly suggested to read the whole guide to get familar with the reason you buy a specific CPU.

      #CPU design explained

      ##How do CPUs work ?
      Any program is executed by breaking it down to simple instructions/operations, that are: mathematical operations such as additions (ADD), multiplications (MUL) and so on, logical operations such as AND, OR and so on, memory read/write operations and relation operations such as is equal (==), is not equal (!=, and many more), is greater (>) and so on. Modern computing languages abstract a lot of these concepts but any machine code will only contain a "smaller" number of instructions. The set of all instruction a specific CPU can use is called Instruction set.

      The actual number crunching in CPUs is done by so called Execution Units. The most important Execution Units are the ALU or __A__rithmetic and __L__ogic __U__nit, which performs integer operations, and the FPU or __F__loating-__P__oint __U__nit, which handles operation on floating point numers, but there may be several other Unit types that perform more specialized operations, like Load/Store units or Cryptography Units. The "magic" happens in the Execution Units, every computation the CPU makes are done here.

      Additionally, there are many parts of the CPU that exist solely to feed the Execution Units with data and instructions. These parts sometimes take up large portions of the CPU die. These System include, but are not limited to parts of the CPU like Caches, which store information, both data and instructions, so that the CPU dooes not need to write and read to the RAM for everything, Branch Prediction, which predicts which operations need to be done next in advance (I dont think talking about Pipelines is important here, I am only talking about Execution units to explain CMT,SMT and IPC better anyways) decoders, which decode the instructions stored in the cache to control signals for the execution unit and the Scheduler, which tell the different Execution units which operations they need to perform. The utilization of the Execution Units depends on how good these additional parts work and is never perfect. Therefore, Cores with the same amount of Execution units might have a different performance.


      ##Clock speed isnt everything: IPC
      One of the first things one is confrontet with if looking for a CPU is the clock speed of a Processor. Yet CPUs with higher clock speed are sometimes cheaper than the competitors offering with a slower clock or clock speed doesnt change after generations or even reduces. So whats the Issue here ?

      Simply put, modern CPUs can compute several operations each cycle. This is called __I__nstructions __P__er __C__ycle, or IPC. Each different CPU microarchitecture, from now on called µArch, uArch or simply Arch, has a different IPC and there the clock speed is not a good indicator when comparing CPUs from different generations and µArch.

      How is a CPU core able to perform more than one Instruction per cycle ? Modern CPU have several Execution Units per core. This design with several execution units per core is called Superscalar. Depending on the programm running, a core might be able to do a different amount of work each cycle. The only way to compare the IPC of two different Arch is to compare benchmarks of the programm you want to run.

      ##Superscalar µArchs: Does AMD have real cores and do games use Hyperthreading ?

      Like explained in in __Clock speed isnt everything: IPC__, modern CPU have several ALUs and FPUs in each cores and cores perform more than 1 IPC. A big problem is how to utilize all the executioon units to the fullest. Most units idle at least some of the time because they cant get enough informations about what to do.

      To increase the utilisation of these units and therefore the performance per mm^2 or transistor, the chip makers use several tricks. __S__imultaneous __M__ulti__T__hreading, or SMT, also called __H__yper__T__hreading or HT by Intel and Core __M__ulti__T__hreading or CMT aka the "module" are some of these.

      Intels Hyperthreading doubles some of the resources in each core that is resposible to distribute the instructions to the execution units. This allows the execution of 2 threads on a single core and increases the utilisation of the ALUs and FPUs in the core. While there are some bugs in some programs that are usually fixed quite fast, HT generally doesnt need support from the program. The performance increase still depends on the number of threads the program can efficently use though. The performance increase of an additional HT thread is not comparable to an additional CPU core, even in very good cases it will usually not exceed 20% performance increase.

      CMT also doubles and shares some recources, which exactly depends on the generation of the CPU. All CMT design up to date have oone thing in common: relativly weak integer cores with a big, shared FPU "core". While technically inaccurate and not an official name, it is therefore sometimes called "FPU-SMT". However, one should not make the mistake and think that one module equals one core. In situations consumer desktops will encounter, a module behaves like 2 weak cores: low single thread performance, but decent performance if a programm uses all cores.

      #Which CPU fits my needs ?

      In general, there 3 use cases that are important to distinguish:

      1. Low performance, everyday activities such as watching videos, surfing in the internet, playing simple flash games or using Office.

      2. Gaming

      3. Highly multithreaded "work" applications such as Photoshop or Videoediting.

      These cases differ in the amount of CPU performance they need need and if they need all the performance from a single core/thread, called single thread performance, or if they can use the performance of all threads, called multi thread performance. The single thread performance depends on the IPC times clock speed, the multithread performance on the number of threads times the single thread performance. To know the performance of each CPU µArch, it is necessary to read benchmarks and reviews. Generally however, Intel provides a higher single thread performance.

      ######General use

      These applications usually need very little performance and almost any modern CPU, such as the AMD socket A1 CPUs or Intels Socket 1150 Celerons, can be used for this without many problems. Depending on your budget and specific need CPUs up to the an i3 might be usefull. If you build a PC only used for this scenario, you generally want a CPU with integrated GPU. The single thread performance and number of threads is generally not very important. If you build a PC that is also used for games or more demanding work programms you dont need to take anything additional into consideration it will run any "everyday" activity just fine.

      If you are unsure if what you do qualifies as "low performance" or if you need a beefier workstation, consult benchmarks, /r/buildapc and/or a community specialises in this application.

      ######Gaming

      Games may need a lot of CPU performance and depending on the game in question single thread performance will be the most important. Some very propular games that are limited in scope, such as MOBAs like LoL or DotA 2, dont need much CPU performance, others, like e.g. WoW, however can still be very demanding. If you are unsure how much performance the games you play need and if they prefer single thread performance, consult benchmarks, /r/buildapc and/or a community specialises in this game.

      A general rule of thumb is that video cards should be 1.5x to 2x as expensive as the CPU in gaming builds.

      ######Highly Multithreaded Apps

      Like the name suggest, most "work" apps are not bottlenecked by single thread performance and can instead easily substitute lower single thread performance with more threads.

      If you are unsure how much performance you need and if your appllications can use many threads or are bottlenecked by single thread performance, consult benchmarks, /r/buildapc and/or a community specialises in this application.

      ##Overclocking

      Do we get a general Overclocking guide ? How long should this section be ?


      Gehäuse: reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments…_case_part_1_case_basics/

      Mainboards: afaik gibts glaub nirgends wirklich nen guide. Wichtigste source ist sinhardware.com/index.php/vrm-list (sowie overclock.net/t/946407/amd-motherboards-vrm-info-database für AMD)

      reddit guide
      ###Motherboard Wiki

      *Note: Throughout this guide, reference will be made to components on the motherbaord using the orientation shown in the following picture:
      cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/up…Gigabyte-GA-Z87X-UD4H.jpg

      ##The Motherboard

      The motherboard integrates every other piece of hardware to create one cohesive unit. The importance of selection in a motherboard depends on several factors including required feature set, overclockability, and expansion slots.


      ***
      ##Parts of the Motherboard

      The motherboard layouts are generally similar regardless of the form factor, but a handy guide can be found [here.](i.imgur.com/BE4U9D9.png)

      * CPU Socket

      The socket is where the CPU is installed onto the motherboard. There are guides, such as plastic notches or a triangle to match, which assist in installing the CPU in the correct orientation. Intel processors employ a surface-mount technology (SMT) known as Land Grid Array (LGA), where the pins are located within the socket, rather than on the CPU. The underside of the CPU in an LGA setup is just contacts with no pins. AMD processors use an SMT known as Pin Grid Array (PGA), where the pins are mounted onto the CPU, rather than the socket.

      * RAM Slots

      RAM slots are the slots in which the RAM is installed. The notches on the slot are situated in such a way such that each RAM module can only be installed in one orientation. Installation involves flipping open the notches on each side of the slot, sliding the RAM module in the slot, and pushing both ends down until you hear the ends click and the notches flip back into place.

      * Expansion slots

      There have been several different types of expansion slots in the past however the two that are found on mordern motherboards to date are PCI and PCIe.

      PCI (Peripheral Component Interconnect) is an older port used for connecting various peripherals, such as video, sound, and network cards. It is now rarely used and has been superseded by PCIe (PCI Express), which is capable of transferring larger amounts of data at higher speeds. Advantages of PCIe over convertional PCI include a smaller physical footprint (reduced port size), higher maximum system bus throughput, and more detailed error reporting.

      PCI Express has had 3 revisions to date: 1.1, 2.0 and 3.0. Each revision has doubled the bandwidth per lane (x16 meaning 16 lanes). 3.0 has a bandwidth of 1GB/lane, for a total of 16GB/slot in a PCI-e 3.0 x16 slot. As a result, equating generations of PCI-e to their equivalent bandwidths (PCI-e 2.0 x16 = PCI-e 3.0 x8, for example) is possible. Since PCI-e 3.0 is still a fairly new standard, tests have yet to show any major performance improvement as a result of the increase in bandwidth for dual video cards in SLI/xfire. AMD motherboards do not currently have native PCI Express 3.0 support, though several board partners offer products with PCI Express 3.0 support.

      Generally speaking, Graphics Cards will be installed in the top most PCI Express X16 slot. Additionally, keep in mind that for PCI-express cards, smaller electrically formatted PCI-e cards will work in any slot that’s electrically designed higher. For example, a SATA expansion card that is a [PCI-e x1 interface](syba.com/upload/1346799301/134679930172325.JPG), can be plugged into any PCI-e slot larger (x4, x8, or x16).

      Be aware that many GPUs (mid to high-end) are dual, or even triple slot cards. They will obstruct their own PCI-e x16 slot as well as 1 or 2 slots below it, so not all expansion slots will be available for use. Check pictures or reviews of cards to find out if it’s a double or a triple slot card.

      * SATA Connectors

      The SATA connectors are typically located at the bottom right of the board and can be either perpendicular connectors, or (most of the time) parallel connectors to the motherboard. These are for hard drives, SSDs and optical drives. The newest revision of SATA is SATA 3, which offers speeds of up to 600MBytes/s or 6 Gbits/s. SATA cables and ports are all forwards and backwards compatible, and the link (SATA 1, 2, or 3) will run at whichever is the slowest on either the drive end, or the controller end. For example, a SATA 2 SSD on a SATA 3 controller will run at SATA 2 speeds. A SATA 3 SSD on a SATA 1 controller will run at SATA 1 speeds, etc.

      * Power Supply Unit (PSU) Connectors

      There are several ports on motherboards which are used to power the system from the power supply. Every PSU comes with these cables. The 24-pin power is the main power source that supplies power to the entire motherboard and every interface on it. It is a layout of 12 by 2 (often referred to as the 24-pin). The EPS connection (also known as CPU Power and 12v) is near the top left of the motherboard in almost all cases. The purpose of this connection is to provide power directly to the CPU and to the Voltage Regulator Modules (VRMs) and is either a 4-pin or an 8-pin connection. Most power supplies utilize EPS connectors that can separate into 2 4-pin connectors, depending on if the motherboard requires a 4-pin, or 8-pin connection.

      Certain motherboards may also have connectors for a SATA power connection, a 4-pin Molex, or 6-pin PCI-express around the bottom half of the motherboard, near the expansion slots. The purpose of this is to provide extra power to the PCI-express controller when using multi-GPU (SLI or CrossFire) configurations to give better stability.

      * Front panel connections

      The lower right area of the motherboard is an area for connections for the front panel buttons/LEDs on the case, such as the power button, reset button, power LED, and Hard Drive activity LED. The motherboard manual will elaborate on which connection goes where, and which lead goes on which pin.

      * Fan Headers

      Motherboards come with multiple fan headers scattered throughout the layout of the motherboard as either 3 or 4 pin connectors. A 4-pin connector generally is used to support Pulse Width Modulation, or PWM to control speeds, which doesn’t require modifying voltage sent through the port and is typically more responsive and quicker to change speeds. 3-pin fans rely on voltage regulation to control speeds. The CPU fan header will be near the CPU socket and will react with CPU temperature. The rest of the headers will normally be labeled as either CHA_FAN or SYS_FAN rather than CPU_FAN. Most of these can settings can be managed/modified in the BIOS of the motherboard.

      * Peripheral connections

      The motherboard will also have connections for peripherals, such as case-mounted USB ports, audio ports, or (in very rare cases) FireWire ports. These are going to be labeled on the connector and correspond with the labeled connection on the motherboard. These connections are also keyed such that one pin will be missing on the connection, while the corresponding hole on the connector will be blocked so they can be matched correctly. While FireWire and USB headers have similar looking connections, they are not interchangeable, and may cause a short circuit if not plugged into their proper ports.

      * Back I/O panel

      The back I/O panel serves as the main location for general use ports such as USB, audio, video output (in the case of integrated graphics CPUs), and Ethernet among others. This will be facing outside the back of the case and will be along the top left of the motherboard.

      ***PLEASE NOTE:*** install your Back I/O shield (which comes with your motherboard) *before* installing the motherboard into the case.

      ##Form Factor

      Picking a form factor is probably the first decision that should be made when deciding on a motherboard. The major categories of motherboard form factors are Standard ATX, Micro ATX, Mini ITX, and Extended ATX.

      * Standard ATX

      This is the most popular size of motherboard for buyers considering custom builds. Generally, ATX motherboards will have 4 RAM slots, 6+ SATA ports, several USB headers (including a 3.0 header), and up to 8 expansion slots (for PCI interfacing expansion cards). A mid-tower ATX or larger case is going to be required to accommodate a Standard ATX sized motherboard.

      * Micro ATX

      This is similar to the Standard ATX layout, but is slightly smaller in dimensions, at the sacrifice of expansion slots. Typically there are 4 expansion slots instead of 8, which can enable SLI or CrossFire on compatible motherboards, even with the smaller size. Any case bigger than a mid-tower ATX case most likely is compatible with Micro ATX, but the specification page for the case should be checked as a precaution. But, typically, there are Micro ATX Mid-tower cases that are specially made for Micro ATX motherboards to go along with the smaller form-factor theme.

      * Mini ITX

      Normally the smallest used motherboard form factor, ITX motherboards focus on essentials only. They will have a single x16 expansion slot, several SATA connectors, and USB headers. mITX motherboards will generally fit in all sizes of case, though are normally used in HTPC builds.

      * Extended ATX

      Extended ATX (or EATX) motherboards are among the largest consumer boards that are mass produced for general users, though they normally used in servers more than desktop computers, EATX boards are slightly wider which allows more space for extra VRMs, better power delivery systems and potentially more USB headers along the bottom of the board. Generally these boards are used for heavy overclocking builds and enthusiast spec systems.

      ***
      ##Chipsets

      Chipsets are a pretty simple topic to cover when picking out a motherboard. Chipsets are generally split by manufacturer and then by socket.

      Intel: For Intel, the major decision is based on two factors: Overclocking and multi-GPU. If either of these are a requirement in a build, the chipsets available are Z87/Z97 (X79/X99 will be explained in the sockets section). None of the other Intel chipsets for the Haswell generation support overclocking and SLI (Crossfire *is* supported, but will be running on a 2.0 x4 slot which can lead to throughput issues). If overclocking or multi-GPU is not a consideration in a planned system, the other available chipsets are H87, H81, and B85. [Intel Rapid Storage Technology](intel.com/support/chipsets/imsm/sb/CS-020784.htm) and [Smart Response Technology](en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Response_Technology) that isn't supported on H81, but most users won't really need to worry about it. The major differences between these chipsets can be found on the comparison chart [here.](en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_1150)

      AMD: The high-end chipset for AMD is currently the 990FX chipset, which has everything from SLI/CrossFire support (support for up to quad-SLI/CrossFire), to high quality VRM/MOSFET support for enhanced overclocking capabilities. Going lower will start you losing features on the PCI-e slot capabilities, (such as only 2 PCI-e x16 2.0 slots on 990X, and a single PCI-e x16 2.0 slot on 970) but adding more features that low-end builders might want, like an onboard GPU. There are fewer under-the-hood features that you lose by getting a lower chipset on the AMD platforms, so it's important to read spec sheets to understand what you get in terms of port and expansion slot capabilities per motherboard.

      A good comparison chart of all AMD chipsets can be found [here](en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_chipsets)

      ***
      ## CPU Socket

      The socket is the part of the motherboard that deals with processor compatibility. Sockets typically change with processor generation, although there are slight differences on the AMD side. This section will once again be split to talk about Intel and AMD separately.

      Intel: The latest, 4th generation Intel chips, codename Haswell, run on the LGA 1150 socket. Previous generation Intel chips will run on slightly different sockets, such as LGA 1155, 1156, or 1366. It’s important to match the socket on the processor for a planned build with the one on the motherboard.

      One special case for Intel is the “enthusiast” platform, or socket LGA 2011. The CPUs that run on this socket are mainly the more high-end chips and that also support more than 4 physical cores, such as as 6-core, hyperthreaded CPUs. The chipset that these boards run are the X79 chipset. Additionaly, these CPUs do not include stock coolers, and the chips themselves have no integrated GPU. There are a few unique features about Socket 2011 that sets it apart from the “performance” lines of Z77/Z87/Z97:

      1) Support for 6-core CPUs: If you are going to be running very multi-threaded application/processes, then you might want to consider a 6-core CPU, such as the 4930K.

      2) Support for Quad-Channel Memory: Although this theoretically should give a performance bump in applications that utilize memory bandwidth to its maximum capacity, this feature is only notable in certain scenarios where memory throughput is essential to workloads.

      3) More PCI-e lanes: The X79 chipset supports 40 PCI-e 3.0 lanes among all of its PCI-e slots. This allows for SLI/CrossFire in x16/x16 mode rather than x8/x8 on most Z87 (or equivalent) boards. This also enables support for triple and quad-SLI/CrossFire (something that isn’t supported on most Z87 (or equivalent) boards). While the benefits from this can be seen on super high-end setups (triple monitor or other very high resolution scenarios), most testing has shown little benefit from the additional lanes.

      Generally speaking the X79 platform is most notable for the support of 6 core processors. Additionally, Intel’s release windows normally result in the X79 processors being based on previous generation mainstream processors. For example the most current X79 processors are based on the Ivy Bridge design, a generation behind the mainstream Haswell line With the launch of Haswell-E (based on the current Haswell processors) Intel will be launching an upgraded chipset for the enthusiast platform named X99, which will eliminate compatibility with current enthusiasts processors and motherboards.

      AMD: AMD is a little bit more complicated due to the implementation of backwards compatibility. Really, the only sockets that should be considered at this point in time is FM2/FM2+ and AM3/AM3+. The FM platform is AMD’s platform meant for APUs (CPU and GPU in one chip, as denoted by AMD). This platform have some unique features like Hybrid CrossFire (CrossFire with the APU and a discrete GPU). AM3/AM3+ is AMD’s high-end desktop socket, which are what the FX-series chips run on. The confusing thing about AM3 and AM3+ is that AM3+ CPUs are technically compatible with AM3 sockets, but it’s important to check the potentially matched motherboard’s CPU support list on the manufacturer’s website. Many manufacturers simply issue BIOS updates to give AM3+ CPUs compatibility for AM3 boards.

      ##VRM/Mosfets

      Voltage Regulator Modules, or VRMs, are the part of the motherboard that deals with power delivery, mainly to the CPU (GPUs have their own VRMs). Metal-Oxide-Semiconductor Field-Effect Transistors are components that regulate signals being sent from the various parts of the motherboard to each other, usually from the CPU to the rest of the components. Typically, the more high-end the motherboard, the better quality VRMs and MOSFETs manufacturers will use. This typically translates to greater stability on higher overclocks. For Intel, however, as of Haswell, a lot of the voltage regulation has been moved on to the CPU instead of the motherboard. As a result, onboard motherboard VRMs have come to play less of a role in overclocking than they did in previous generations, though they still provide a degree of improvement.

      For a more detailed breakdown of VRM quality on different motherboards, visit Sin’s Hardware for a detailed breakdown of the different boards, with everything from power phases to MOSFET quality, to PWM phases. AMD's can be found on overclock.net.


      Intel link is here: sinhardware.com/index.php/vrm-list

      AMD link is here: overclock.net/t/946407/amd-motherboards-vrm-info-database

      ***
      ##Brand Bias

      Generally speaking, brand of motherboard is fairly arbitrary, as different motherboards with the same chipset and price range will offer very little in terms of differences in performance. Everyone will have different experiences with different brands. It is more important to select motherboards based on the features required followed by aesthetic preferences (if any) and reading reviews from **professional and reputable** websites (Anandtech, Ars, Guru3D, Techpowerup, etc.) to ensure lack of defects and issues.

      ***

      ##Resources

      Images:

      cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/up…Gigabyte-GA-Z87X-UD4H.jpg
      syba.com/upload/1346799301/134679930172325.JPG
      kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Z87X-UD4H-Rev1-0.jpg
      sinhardware.com/index.php/vrm-list
      overclock.net/t/946407/amd-motherboards-vrm-info-database


      Netzteile: Wichtig ist vor allem Reviews lesen und sehn was "allgemeinwissen" unter andren usern ist.

      Allerdings gibts auch einige guite guides: computerbase.de/2013-05/die-netzteil-mauschelei/
      kompetente Netzteil-Tests sind immer noch Mangelware. Große und kleine Redaktionen scheuen den immensen technischen und personellen Aufwand für sachgerechte Tests, gute Vergleichstests sind daher ausgesprochen selten. Viele Reviews basieren vereinfacht gesagt auf dem Prinzip „Bilder machen, Einbauen, Award vergeben“ – mit ernsthaftem Testen hat diese Vorgehensweise nichts zu tun. Dass einige Netzteil-Marken interessierte Redakteure großzügig mit Testmustern versorgen, hilft bei der Entscheidungsfindung kaum weiter: Netzteil-Testberichte, die mit Spannungsmessungen und Verbrauchsmessungen von realen Computer-Systemen erstellt wurden, sind abseits von Produktvorstellungen und User-Reviews indiskutabel. Bei derart fehlender Vergleichbarkeit des Lastszenarios und der fehlenden Messgenauigkeit preiswerter Energiekosten-Messgeräte könnte man ebenso auch die gute alte Glaskugel auspacken und würde wohl bei noch geringerem Aufwand gleichwertige Ergebnisse erzielen. Das Angebot an qualitativ guten und aussagekräftigen Testberichten ist hingegen eher überschaubar.

      Natürlich ist mir bewusst, dass bereits eine Grundausstattung an für Netzteiltests notwendigem Equipment für viele Reviewer einen finanziellen Kraftakt darstellt. Schon für eine Basisausstattung mit Oszilloskop, Anschlussplatine, Digital-Powermeter und preiswerten programmierbaren elektronischen Lasten (z.B. FAST, Sunmoon, Array) ist ein mittlerer vierstelliger Betrag einzuplanen, während für Luxus-Varianten wie die von uns genutzte Chroma 8000 ATS hohe fünfstellige Eurobeträge anzulegen sind. Andererseits sind Testberichte mit unzureichender Technik nicht aussagekräftig und können im schlimmsten Fall sogar für sachlich völlig falsche Schlussfolgerungen sorgen. So werden dann teilweise Geräte empfohlen, von denen ich ebenso wie internationale Kollegen aufgrund unserer Messergebnisse klar abraten muss. So oder so: es bestehen durchaus Chancen für knausrige Hersteller, dass mangelhafte Produkte nie Kontakt mit einer adäquaten Testumgebung haben werden.


      computerbase.de/2010-04/bericht-netzteile/

      computerbase.de/2013-09/falsche-netzteil-zertifikate/

      computerbase.de/2014-07/11-marketing-tricks-bei-netzteilen/


      jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3990

      jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=Testing_Methodology

      Für kühler weiß ich atm gar nicht wo ich anfangen sollte. Gibt afaik auch keine guides. Einfach reviews lesen.

      Ähnliches für SSDs. Wobei es bei SSDs eh meist un eine handvoll Produkte gibt die meist empfohlen werden.
    • Der PC für ne fertig Lösung ok ? 11
      1.  
        Eher ziemlich überteuert ... (5) 45%
      2.  
        Ja geht so....man macht nichts verkehrt (3) 27%
      3.  
        Absoluter schrotthaufen (2) 18%
      4.  
        Für den preis zum zocken super... (1) 9%
      5.  
        Ist der Hammer!!! (0) 0%
      Also hab mich wahrscheinlich hierfür entschieden

      hier klicken

      Wollt nur mal sicher gehen ob ich nich komplett ins klo greif und man hier damit gut zockn kann, die hardware an sich in ordnung ist usw. Mir halt klar dass fertig pcs nicht so toll sind wie selber zusammen baun aber geht nicht anders.also nur nochmals ne Bestätigung wäre super :)

      Edit : also naturlich nich vergleichen mit selbst zusammen baun

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von nighT-11 ()

    • Trezc0 schrieb:

      Hab gute Erfahrungen mit den Konfiguratoren auf mifcom.de/ gemacht.

      Kannste ja zumindest mal vergleichen.


      Afaik ist der support von denen relativ schlecht. Nachdem ich sowohl die silent als auch den extreme PC durchgegangen bin ist mir auch nichts aufgefallen was ein besonderst gutes P/L hatte, da hält der Alternate PC locker mit.

      Grimm schrieb:

      Warum nicht einfach Einzelteile bei Hardwareversand, alternate oä. zusammenstellen und dann von denen zusammenbauen lassen?
      Ist zwar auch teuer, aber immernoch besser als son fertig pc...


      Bei MF kostet der PC ohne OS, WLAN oder Graka 750€: mindfactory.de/shopping_cart.p…f563c7a2c6ead31184841f640

      Macht 850€ mit OS.

      Am ende bezahlst du also ~150€ mehr bei Alternate, hast dafür aber den besseren Support und weißt, dass der PC auch 100% sicher ordentlich zusammengebaut war.

      Aber ja, das ist natürlich auch ne option.

      nighT-11 schrieb:



      Wollt nur mal sicher gehen ob ich nich komplett ins klo greif und man hier damit gut zockn kann, die hardware an sich in ordnung ist usw. Mir halt klar dass fertig pcs nicht so toll sind wie selber zusammen baun aber geht nicht anders.also nur nochmals ne Bestätigung wäre super :)


      Um nochmals genauer zu erläutern warum ich den PC gewählt hab: Du bekommst super garantie/support und hast gleichzeitig einen PC mit sehr ausgeglichenen (aka keine viel zu starke CPU bei schwacher GPU etc.pp) und sehr hochwertigen Komponenten (guter CPU kühler, Lei. Dafür bezahlst du dann ein stück mehr (würde wohl bei 900-1000€ liegen beim selbstbau), aber der PC ist außer im Preis einem selbst bau in keinem Punkt unterlegen.
    • Spoiler anzeigen

      Akkarin schrieb:

      Einen allumfassenden guide gibts leider nicht, nur verschiedene guides zu den einzelnen teilen. /r/buildapc schreibt grad an was, aber das kann vermutlich noch dauern bis was fertig wird.

      Im allgemeinen ist 3DCenter zu empfehlen, haben auch n klasse forum (solange man vom OT fern bleibt). Gibt regelmäßig sehr gute artikel zu grafikkarten und nen allgemeinen überblick über die performance der karten.

      Für CPUs hat anandtech vor kurzem was ganz gutes geschrieben: anandtech.com/show/8312/state-of-the-part-cpus

      reddit guide
      #Introduction
      ##Or: What is a CPU and why do I need it ?

      The CPU, short for __C__entral __P__rocessing __U__nit, can be described as the heart of any PC. Almost everything that is not directly related to graphics is done by the CPU, be it the AI and any interaction in a game, the calculations in spreadsheets, or photo altering in Lightroom.

      Therefore, the CPU determines the speed of everyday activities, work, but also your frame rates in games, especially in multiplayer games and those with heavy AI and physics. And that almost independently from the graphical settings you choose.

      This guide will cover an explanation on what programs need which requirements and how you can know the performance of a CPU. To keep this guide concise, some material will be omitted or simplified. This guide is meant as an overview and an explaination for some technologies like HyperThreading, not as in in absolute, in depth explaination for CPU architecture design.

      If you want to know more about the sockets a CPU is installed in head over too (Link to Mainboard guide), if you want to know more about CPU cooling, (link top the cooling guide) can help you. Advice which CPU to buy is under ( reddit.com/r/buildapc_editors/…ich_cpu_fits_my_needs_.3F ), simpler recommendations can be found (here link to the buyers guide, currently, r/buildapc_editors/wiki/cpub00), but it is strongly suggested to read the whole guide to get familar with the reason you buy a specific CPU.

      #CPU design explained

      ##How do CPUs work ?
      Any program is executed by breaking it down to simple instructions/operations, that are: mathematical operations such as additions (ADD), multiplications (MUL) and so on, logical operations such as AND, OR and so on, memory read/write operations and relation operations such as is equal (==), is not equal (!=, and many more), is greater (>) and so on. Modern computing languages abstract a lot of these concepts but any machine code will only contain a "smaller" number of instructions. The set of all instruction a specific CPU can use is called Instruction set.

      The actual number crunching in CPUs is done by so called Execution Units. The most important Execution Units are the ALU or __A__rithmetic and __L__ogic __U__nit, which performs integer operations, and the FPU or __F__loating-__P__oint __U__nit, which handles operation on floating point numers, but there may be several other Unit types that perform more specialized operations, like Load/Store units or Cryptography Units. The "magic" happens in the Execution Units, every computation the CPU makes are done here.

      Additionally, there are many parts of the CPU that exist solely to feed the Execution Units with data and instructions. These parts sometimes take up large portions of the CPU die. These System include, but are not limited to parts of the CPU like Caches, which store information, both data and instructions, so that the CPU dooes not need to write and read to the RAM for everything, Branch Prediction, which predicts which operations need to be done next in advance (I dont think talking about Pipelines is important here, I am only talking about Execution units to explain CMT,SMT and IPC better anyways) decoders, which decode the instructions stored in the cache to control signals for the execution unit and the Scheduler, which tell the different Execution units which operations they need to perform. The utilization of the Execution Units depends on how good these additional parts work and is never perfect. Therefore, Cores with the same amount of Execution units might have a different performance.


      ##Clock speed isnt everything: IPC
      One of the first things one is confrontet with if looking for a CPU is the clock speed of a Processor. Yet CPUs with higher clock speed are sometimes cheaper than the competitors offering with a slower clock or clock speed doesnt change after generations or even reduces. So whats the Issue here ?

      Simply put, modern CPUs can compute several operations each cycle. This is called __I__nstructions __P__er __C__ycle, or IPC. Each different CPU microarchitecture, from now on called µArch, uArch or simply Arch, has a different IPC and there the clock speed is not a good indicator when comparing CPUs from different generations and µArch.

      How is a CPU core able to perform more than one Instruction per cycle ? Modern CPU have several Execution Units per core. This design with several execution units per core is called Superscalar. Depending on the programm running, a core might be able to do a different amount of work each cycle. The only way to compare the IPC of two different Arch is to compare benchmarks of the programm you want to run.

      ##Superscalar µArchs: Does AMD have real cores and do games use Hyperthreading ?

      Like explained in in __Clock speed isnt everything: IPC__, modern CPU have several ALUs and FPUs in each cores and cores perform more than 1 IPC. A big problem is how to utilize all the executioon units to the fullest. Most units idle at least some of the time because they cant get enough informations about what to do.

      To increase the utilisation of these units and therefore the performance per mm^2 or transistor, the chip makers use several tricks. __S__imultaneous __M__ulti__T__hreading, or SMT, also called __H__yper__T__hreading or HT by Intel and Core __M__ulti__T__hreading or CMT aka the "module" are some of these.

      Intels Hyperthreading doubles some of the resources in each core that is resposible to distribute the instructions to the execution units. This allows the execution of 2 threads on a single core and increases the utilisation of the ALUs and FPUs in the core. While there are some bugs in some programs that are usually fixed quite fast, HT generally doesnt need support from the program. The performance increase still depends on the number of threads the program can efficently use though. The performance increase of an additional HT thread is not comparable to an additional CPU core, even in very good cases it will usually not exceed 20% performance increase.

      CMT also doubles and shares some recources, which exactly depends on the generation of the CPU. All CMT design up to date have oone thing in common: relativly weak integer cores with a big, shared FPU "core". While technically inaccurate and not an official name, it is therefore sometimes called "FPU-SMT". However, one should not make the mistake and think that one module equals one core. In situations consumer desktops will encounter, a module behaves like 2 weak cores: low single thread performance, but decent performance if a programm uses all cores.

      #Which CPU fits my needs ?

      In general, there 3 use cases that are important to distinguish:

      1. Low performance, everyday activities such as watching videos, surfing in the internet, playing simple flash games or using Office.

      2. Gaming

      3. Highly multithreaded "work" applications such as Photoshop or Videoediting.

      These cases differ in the amount of CPU performance they need need and if they need all the performance from a single core/thread, called single thread performance, or if they can use the performance of all threads, called multi thread performance. The single thread performance depends on the IPC times clock speed, the multithread performance on the number of threads times the single thread performance. To know the performance of each CPU µArch, it is necessary to read benchmarks and reviews. Generally however, Intel provides a higher single thread performance.

      ######General use

      These applications usually need very little performance and almost any modern CPU, such as the AMD socket A1 CPUs or Intels Socket 1150 Celerons, can be used for this without many problems. Depending on your budget and specific need CPUs up to the an i3 might be usefull. If you build a PC only used for this scenario, you generally want a CPU with integrated GPU. The single thread performance and number of threads is generally not very important. If you build a PC that is also used for games or more demanding work programms you dont need to take anything additional into consideration it will run any "everyday" activity just fine.

      If you are unsure if what you do qualifies as "low performance" or if you need a beefier workstation, consult benchmarks, /r/buildapc and/or a community specialises in this application.

      ######Gaming

      Games may need a lot of CPU performance and depending on the game in question single thread performance will be the most important. Some very propular games that are limited in scope, such as MOBAs like LoL or DotA 2, dont need much CPU performance, others, like e.g. WoW, however can still be very demanding. If you are unsure how much performance the games you play need and if they prefer single thread performance, consult benchmarks, /r/buildapc and/or a community specialises in this game.

      A general rule of thumb is that video cards should be 1.5x to 2x as expensive as the CPU in gaming builds.

      ######Highly Multithreaded Apps

      Like the name suggest, most "work" apps are not bottlenecked by single thread performance and can instead easily substitute lower single thread performance with more threads.

      If you are unsure how much performance you need and if your appllications can use many threads or are bottlenecked by single thread performance, consult benchmarks, /r/buildapc and/or a community specialises in this application.

      ##Overclocking

      Do we get a general Overclocking guide ? How long should this section be ?


      Gehäuse: reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments…_case_part_1_case_basics/

      Mainboards: afaik gibts glaub nirgends wirklich nen guide. Wichtigste source ist sinhardware.com/index.php/vrm-list (sowie overclock.net/t/946407/amd-motherboards-vrm-info-database für AMD)

      reddit guide
      ###Motherboard Wiki

      *Note: Throughout this guide, reference will be made to components on the motherbaord using the orientation shown in the following picture:
      cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/up…Gigabyte-GA-Z87X-UD4H.jpg

      ##The Motherboard

      The motherboard integrates every other piece of hardware to create one cohesive unit. The importance of selection in a motherboard depends on several factors including required feature set, overclockability, and expansion slots.


      ***
      ##Parts of the Motherboard

      The motherboard layouts are generally similar regardless of the form factor, but a handy guide can be found [here.](i.imgur.com/BE4U9D9.png)

      * CPU Socket

      The socket is where the CPU is installed onto the motherboard. There are guides, such as plastic notches or a triangle to match, which assist in installing the CPU in the correct orientation. Intel processors employ a surface-mount technology (SMT) known as Land Grid Array (LGA), where the pins are located within the socket, rather than on the CPU. The underside of the CPU in an LGA setup is just contacts with no pins. AMD processors use an SMT known as Pin Grid Array (PGA), where the pins are mounted onto the CPU, rather than the socket.

      * RAM Slots

      RAM slots are the slots in which the RAM is installed. The notches on the slot are situated in such a way such that each RAM module can only be installed in one orientation. Installation involves flipping open the notches on each side of the slot, sliding the RAM module in the slot, and pushing both ends down until you hear the ends click and the notches flip back into place.

      * Expansion slots

      There have been several different types of expansion slots in the past however the two that are found on mordern motherboards to date are PCI and PCIe.

      PCI (Peripheral Component Interconnect) is an older port used for connecting various peripherals, such as video, sound, and network cards. It is now rarely used and has been superseded by PCIe (PCI Express), which is capable of transferring larger amounts of data at higher speeds. Advantages of PCIe over convertional PCI include a smaller physical footprint (reduced port size), higher maximum system bus throughput, and more detailed error reporting.

      PCI Express has had 3 revisions to date: 1.1, 2.0 and 3.0. Each revision has doubled the bandwidth per lane (x16 meaning 16 lanes). 3.0 has a bandwidth of 1GB/lane, for a total of 16GB/slot in a PCI-e 3.0 x16 slot. As a result, equating generations of PCI-e to their equivalent bandwidths (PCI-e 2.0 x16 = PCI-e 3.0 x8, for example) is possible. Since PCI-e 3.0 is still a fairly new standard, tests have yet to show any major performance improvement as a result of the increase in bandwidth for dual video cards in SLI/xfire. AMD motherboards do not currently have native PCI Express 3.0 support, though several board partners offer products with PCI Express 3.0 support.

      Generally speaking, Graphics Cards will be installed in the top most PCI Express X16 slot. Additionally, keep in mind that for PCI-express cards, smaller electrically formatted PCI-e cards will work in any slot that’s electrically designed higher. For example, a SATA expansion card that is a [PCI-e x1 interface](syba.com/upload/1346799301/134679930172325.JPG), can be plugged into any PCI-e slot larger (x4, x8, or x16).

      Be aware that many GPUs (mid to high-end) are dual, or even triple slot cards. They will obstruct their own PCI-e x16 slot as well as 1 or 2 slots below it, so not all expansion slots will be available for use. Check pictures or reviews of cards to find out if it’s a double or a triple slot card.

      * SATA Connectors

      The SATA connectors are typically located at the bottom right of the board and can be either perpendicular connectors, or (most of the time) parallel connectors to the motherboard. These are for hard drives, SSDs and optical drives. The newest revision of SATA is SATA 3, which offers speeds of up to 600MBytes/s or 6 Gbits/s. SATA cables and ports are all forwards and backwards compatible, and the link (SATA 1, 2, or 3) will run at whichever is the slowest on either the drive end, or the controller end. For example, a SATA 2 SSD on a SATA 3 controller will run at SATA 2 speeds. A SATA 3 SSD on a SATA 1 controller will run at SATA 1 speeds, etc.

      * Power Supply Unit (PSU) Connectors

      There are several ports on motherboards which are used to power the system from the power supply. Every PSU comes with these cables. The 24-pin power is the main power source that supplies power to the entire motherboard and every interface on it. It is a layout of 12 by 2 (often referred to as the 24-pin). The EPS connection (also known as CPU Power and 12v) is near the top left of the motherboard in almost all cases. The purpose of this connection is to provide power directly to the CPU and to the Voltage Regulator Modules (VRMs) and is either a 4-pin or an 8-pin connection. Most power supplies utilize EPS connectors that can separate into 2 4-pin connectors, depending on if the motherboard requires a 4-pin, or 8-pin connection.

      Certain motherboards may also have connectors for a SATA power connection, a 4-pin Molex, or 6-pin PCI-express around the bottom half of the motherboard, near the expansion slots. The purpose of this is to provide extra power to the PCI-express controller when using multi-GPU (SLI or CrossFire) configurations to give better stability.

      * Front panel connections

      The lower right area of the motherboard is an area for connections for the front panel buttons/LEDs on the case, such as the power button, reset button, power LED, and Hard Drive activity LED. The motherboard manual will elaborate on which connection goes where, and which lead goes on which pin.

      * Fan Headers

      Motherboards come with multiple fan headers scattered throughout the layout of the motherboard as either 3 or 4 pin connectors. A 4-pin connector generally is used to support Pulse Width Modulation, or PWM to control speeds, which doesn’t require modifying voltage sent through the port and is typically more responsive and quicker to change speeds. 3-pin fans rely on voltage regulation to control speeds. The CPU fan header will be near the CPU socket and will react with CPU temperature. The rest of the headers will normally be labeled as either CHA_FAN or SYS_FAN rather than CPU_FAN. Most of these can settings can be managed/modified in the BIOS of the motherboard.

      * Peripheral connections

      The motherboard will also have connections for peripherals, such as case-mounted USB ports, audio ports, or (in very rare cases) FireWire ports. These are going to be labeled on the connector and correspond with the labeled connection on the motherboard. These connections are also keyed such that one pin will be missing on the connection, while the corresponding hole on the connector will be blocked so they can be matched correctly. While FireWire and USB headers have similar looking connections, they are not interchangeable, and may cause a short circuit if not plugged into their proper ports.

      * Back I/O panel

      The back I/O panel serves as the main location for general use ports such as USB, audio, video output (in the case of integrated graphics CPUs), and Ethernet among others. This will be facing outside the back of the case and will be along the top left of the motherboard.

      ***PLEASE NOTE:*** install your Back I/O shield (which comes with your motherboard) *before* installing the motherboard into the case.

      ##Form Factor

      Picking a form factor is probably the first decision that should be made when deciding on a motherboard. The major categories of motherboard form factors are Standard ATX, Micro ATX, Mini ITX, and Extended ATX.

      * Standard ATX

      This is the most popular size of motherboard for buyers considering custom builds. Generally, ATX motherboards will have 4 RAM slots, 6+ SATA ports, several USB headers (including a 3.0 header), and up to 8 expansion slots (for PCI interfacing expansion cards). A mid-tower ATX or larger case is going to be required to accommodate a Standard ATX sized motherboard.

      * Micro ATX

      This is similar to the Standard ATX layout, but is slightly smaller in dimensions, at the sacrifice of expansion slots. Typically there are 4 expansion slots instead of 8, which can enable SLI or CrossFire on compatible motherboards, even with the smaller size. Any case bigger than a mid-tower ATX case most likely is compatible with Micro ATX, but the specification page for the case should be checked as a precaution. But, typically, there are Micro ATX Mid-tower cases that are specially made for Micro ATX motherboards to go along with the smaller form-factor theme.

      * Mini ITX

      Normally the smallest used motherboard form factor, ITX motherboards focus on essentials only. They will have a single x16 expansion slot, several SATA connectors, and USB headers. mITX motherboards will generally fit in all sizes of case, though are normally used in HTPC builds.

      * Extended ATX

      Extended ATX (or EATX) motherboards are among the largest consumer boards that are mass produced for general users, though they normally used in servers more than desktop computers, EATX boards are slightly wider which allows more space for extra VRMs, better power delivery systems and potentially more USB headers along the bottom of the board. Generally these boards are used for heavy overclocking builds and enthusiast spec systems.

      ***
      ##Chipsets

      Chipsets are a pretty simple topic to cover when picking out a motherboard. Chipsets are generally split by manufacturer and then by socket.

      Intel: For Intel, the major decision is based on two factors: Overclocking and multi-GPU. If either of these are a requirement in a build, the chipsets available are Z87/Z97 (X79/X99 will be explained in the sockets section). None of the other Intel chipsets for the Haswell generation support overclocking and SLI (Crossfire *is* supported, but will be running on a 2.0 x4 slot which can lead to throughput issues). If overclocking or multi-GPU is not a consideration in a planned system, the other available chipsets are H87, H81, and B85. [Intel Rapid Storage Technology](intel.com/support/chipsets/imsm/sb/CS-020784.htm) and [Smart Response Technology](en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Response_Technology) that isn't supported on H81, but most users won't really need to worry about it. The major differences between these chipsets can be found on the comparison chart [here.](en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_1150)

      AMD: The high-end chipset for AMD is currently the 990FX chipset, which has everything from SLI/CrossFire support (support for up to quad-SLI/CrossFire), to high quality VRM/MOSFET support for enhanced overclocking capabilities. Going lower will start you losing features on the PCI-e slot capabilities, (such as only 2 PCI-e x16 2.0 slots on 990X, and a single PCI-e x16 2.0 slot on 970) but adding more features that low-end builders might want, like an onboard GPU. There are fewer under-the-hood features that you lose by getting a lower chipset on the AMD platforms, so it's important to read spec sheets to understand what you get in terms of port and expansion slot capabilities per motherboard.

      A good comparison chart of all AMD chipsets can be found [here](en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_chipsets)

      ***
      ## CPU Socket

      The socket is the part of the motherboard that deals with processor compatibility. Sockets typically change with processor generation, although there are slight differences on the AMD side. This section will once again be split to talk about Intel and AMD separately.

      Intel: The latest, 4th generation Intel chips, codename Haswell, run on the LGA 1150 socket. Previous generation Intel chips will run on slightly different sockets, such as LGA 1155, 1156, or 1366. It’s important to match the socket on the processor for a planned build with the one on the motherboard.

      One special case for Intel is the “enthusiast” platform, or socket LGA 2011. The CPUs that run on this socket are mainly the more high-end chips and that also support more than 4 physical cores, such as as 6-core, hyperthreaded CPUs. The chipset that these boards run are the X79 chipset. Additionaly, these CPUs do not include stock coolers, and the chips themselves have no integrated GPU. There are a few unique features about Socket 2011 that sets it apart from the “performance” lines of Z77/Z87/Z97:

      1) Support for 6-core CPUs: If you are going to be running very multi-threaded application/processes, then you might want to consider a 6-core CPU, such as the 4930K.

      2) Support for Quad-Channel Memory: Although this theoretically should give a performance bump in applications that utilize memory bandwidth to its maximum capacity, this feature is only notable in certain scenarios where memory throughput is essential to workloads.

      3) More PCI-e lanes: The X79 chipset supports 40 PCI-e 3.0 lanes among all of its PCI-e slots. This allows for SLI/CrossFire in x16/x16 mode rather than x8/x8 on most Z87 (or equivalent) boards. This also enables support for triple and quad-SLI/CrossFire (something that isn’t supported on most Z87 (or equivalent) boards). While the benefits from this can be seen on super high-end setups (triple monitor or other very high resolution scenarios), most testing has shown little benefit from the additional lanes.

      Generally speaking the X79 platform is most notable for the support of 6 core processors. Additionally, Intel’s release windows normally result in the X79 processors being based on previous generation mainstream processors. For example the most current X79 processors are based on the Ivy Bridge design, a generation behind the mainstream Haswell line With the launch of Haswell-E (based on the current Haswell processors) Intel will be launching an upgraded chipset for the enthusiast platform named X99, which will eliminate compatibility with current enthusiasts processors and motherboards.

      AMD: AMD is a little bit more complicated due to the implementation of backwards compatibility. Really, the only sockets that should be considered at this point in time is FM2/FM2+ and AM3/AM3+. The FM platform is AMD’s platform meant for APUs (CPU and GPU in one chip, as denoted by AMD). This platform have some unique features like Hybrid CrossFire (CrossFire with the APU and a discrete GPU). AM3/AM3+ is AMD’s high-end desktop socket, which are what the FX-series chips run on. The confusing thing about AM3 and AM3+ is that AM3+ CPUs are technically compatible with AM3 sockets, but it’s important to check the potentially matched motherboard’s CPU support list on the manufacturer’s website. Many manufacturers simply issue BIOS updates to give AM3+ CPUs compatibility for AM3 boards.

      ##VRM/Mosfets

      Voltage Regulator Modules, or VRMs, are the part of the motherboard that deals with power delivery, mainly to the CPU (GPUs have their own VRMs). Metal-Oxide-Semiconductor Field-Effect Transistors are components that regulate signals being sent from the various parts of the motherboard to each other, usually from the CPU to the rest of the components. Typically, the more high-end the motherboard, the better quality VRMs and MOSFETs manufacturers will use. This typically translates to greater stability on higher overclocks. For Intel, however, as of Haswell, a lot of the voltage regulation has been moved on to the CPU instead of the motherboard. As a result, onboard motherboard VRMs have come to play less of a role in overclocking than they did in previous generations, though they still provide a degree of improvement.

      For a more detailed breakdown of VRM quality on different motherboards, visit Sin’s Hardware for a detailed breakdown of the different boards, with everything from power phases to MOSFET quality, to PWM phases. AMD's can be found on overclock.net.


      Intel link is here: sinhardware.com/index.php/vrm-list

      AMD link is here: overclock.net/t/946407/amd-motherboards-vrm-info-database

      ***
      ##Brand Bias

      Generally speaking, brand of motherboard is fairly arbitrary, as different motherboards with the same chipset and price range will offer very little in terms of differences in performance. Everyone will have different experiences with different brands. It is more important to select motherboards based on the features required followed by aesthetic preferences (if any) and reading reviews from **professional and reputable** websites (Anandtech, Ars, Guru3D, Techpowerup, etc.) to ensure lack of defects and issues.

      ***

      ##Resources

      Images:

      cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/up…Gigabyte-GA-Z87X-UD4H.jpg
      syba.com/upload/1346799301/134679930172325.JPG
      kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Z87X-UD4H-Rev1-0.jpg
      sinhardware.com/index.php/vrm-list
      overclock.net/t/946407/amd-motherboards-vrm-info-database


      Netzteile: Wichtig ist vor allem Reviews lesen und sehn was "allgemeinwissen" unter andren usern ist.

      Allerdings gibts auch einige guite guides: computerbase.de/2013-05/die-netzteil-mauschelei/
      kompetente Netzteil-Tests sind immer noch Mangelware. Große und kleine Redaktionen scheuen den immensen technischen und personellen Aufwand für sachgerechte Tests, gute Vergleichstests sind daher ausgesprochen selten. Viele Reviews basieren vereinfacht gesagt auf dem Prinzip „Bilder machen, Einbauen, Award vergeben“ – mit ernsthaftem Testen hat diese Vorgehensweise nichts zu tun. Dass einige Netzteil-Marken interessierte Redakteure großzügig mit Testmustern versorgen, hilft bei der Entscheidungsfindung kaum weiter: Netzteil-Testberichte, die mit Spannungsmessungen und Verbrauchsmessungen von realen Computer-Systemen erstellt wurden, sind abseits von Produktvorstellungen und User-Reviews indiskutabel. Bei derart fehlender Vergleichbarkeit des Lastszenarios und der fehlenden Messgenauigkeit preiswerter Energiekosten-Messgeräte könnte man ebenso auch die gute alte Glaskugel auspacken und würde wohl bei noch geringerem Aufwand gleichwertige Ergebnisse erzielen. Das Angebot an qualitativ guten und aussagekräftigen Testberichten ist hingegen eher überschaubar.

      Natürlich ist mir bewusst, dass bereits eine Grundausstattung an für Netzteiltests notwendigem Equipment für viele Reviewer einen finanziellen Kraftakt darstellt. Schon für eine Basisausstattung mit Oszilloskop, Anschlussplatine, Digital-Powermeter und preiswerten programmierbaren elektronischen Lasten (z.B. FAST, Sunmoon, Array) ist ein mittlerer vierstelliger Betrag einzuplanen, während für Luxus-Varianten wie die von uns genutzte Chroma 8000 ATS hohe fünfstellige Eurobeträge anzulegen sind. Andererseits sind Testberichte mit unzureichender Technik nicht aussagekräftig und können im schlimmsten Fall sogar für sachlich völlig falsche Schlussfolgerungen sorgen. So werden dann teilweise Geräte empfohlen, von denen ich ebenso wie internationale Kollegen aufgrund unserer Messergebnisse klar abraten muss. So oder so: es bestehen durchaus Chancen für knausrige Hersteller, dass mangelhafte Produkte nie Kontakt mit einer adäquaten Testumgebung haben werden.


      computerbase.de/2010-04/bericht-netzteile/

      computerbase.de/2013-09/falsche-netzteil-zertifikate/

      computerbase.de/2014-07/11-marketing-tricks-bei-netzteilen/


      jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3990

      jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=Testing_Methodology

      Für kühler weiß ich atm gar nicht wo ich anfangen sollte. Gibt afaik auch keine guides. Einfach reviews lesen.

      Ähnliches für SSDs. Wobei es bei SSDs eh meist un eine handvoll Produkte gibt die meist empfohlen werden.


      Vielen Dank für die ganzen Infos. Hab ich ja erstmal was zu tun :]
    • Vielen dank für die Antworten
      Will einfach nen fertig pc mit os. Dazu garantie und support von alternate....falls alternate an sich gut ist. Mir is klar dass ich dafür mehr bezahlen muss aber bin bereit das zu zahlen. ...deswegen gehts mir weniger darum ob man für das grld etwas besseres bekommt wenn man es selbst macht sondern ob es für ein fertig pc an sich in Ordnung ist und ob alternate gut ist