Na`Vi's Dilemma

    • Na`Vi's Dilemma

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      Before I begin, I should make it clear that the purpose of this article is not to discuss any rumours regarding what may or may not happen to Na`Vi’s roster. I regard it highly likely that the team will change, but what should interestus all is the predicament Na`Vi find themselves in at this time. With that said, let’s get to it.

      Does Na`Vi have to make a change?

      Prior to StarLadder XI many felt that they were seeing signs of improvement from Na`Vi. Some two months after taking on Artur ‘Goblak’ Kostenko, the team seemed to be playing according to a common game plan, one that reflected the strengths of Goblak’s style. With good reason, people were feeling hopeful about the fortunes of the Na`Vi squad, myself included. It wasn’t perfect by any means, but it was a start. However, that progress was undone over this weekend, as Na`Vi proved to be far too easy to dismantle and their fortunes just a momentary uptick associated with a new draft. As such, they now once more languish somewhere among the second tier of CIS teams.

      This is a problem for a very simple reason, as the CIS scene has had only two direct invites per year for the past two Internationals. At the time of writing, the only way Na`Vi would find themselves with a ticket to Seattle is if Valve were in the business of handing out tickets to fan favourites, something which they haven’t truly done since backing Ivan ‘Artstyle’ Antonov’s Darer squad for TI2 before they even had a roster. As has been evident by big name organizations like LGD and Team Liquid being forced into the qualifiers in previous years, Valve are highly likely force Na`Vi into a qualifier run if they want a spot at the biggest event of the year.

      If so, then how do things look for Na`Vi if they indeed have to qualify? At this moment in time, it is more than likely that the direct invited teams from the West will be Evil Geniuses, Team Secret, Cloud9, ASUS.Polar (and whatever they find themselves rebranded as) and, potentially, Team Empire. Beyond that, Alliance, Team Tinker, Virtus.Pro and NiP are likely to contest for a spot as well, perhaps followed by HellRaisers and/or Power Rangers (North American teams beyond EG are of little interest here). There’s probably one undecided direct invite for a European team at this moment, and of the teams having to compete in the qualifier, there’s probably half a dozen who are if not favoured against Na`Vi in a qualifier run then at least on par with them. In short, as things stand, Na`Vi have a slim if any chance of attending The International.

      While Na`Vi as an organization isn’t as exclusively built on the success of their Dota team as some might think, it’s hard to argue that the bulk of their sponsorships have been earned because of their fan favourite status within our game. The Na`Vi of CS:GO is a decent competitor, but it’s nothing like the monster it was back in 1.6, and it’s certainly not going to be enough to keep Steelseries and company happy. Without a presence at the International, we may well see Na`Vi shrink for the first time in years, in terms of their buying power and overall clout.


      Dendi shooting material for Valve. Photo by Valve.

      How big of a change is needed?

      Quite frankly, if Na`Vi shuffle only their supports again, their odds of success are slim to none. When the first rumours of Clement ‘Puppey’ Ivanov and Kuro ‘Kuroky’ Salehi Takhasomi leaving the team surfaced after TI3, I already said that the best replacements Na`Vi could hope for were Goblak and at the time fairly unknown Ivan ‘VANSKOR’ Skorokhod. A straight up replacement has been tried, and the experiment failed. More drastic measures need to be considered.

      Something that people might not realize is that there’s always been a conflict within the modern Na`Vi, ever since Gleb ‘Funn1k’ Lipatnikov joined the team. Funn1k and Danil ‘Dendi’ Ishutin were both players around whom their respective teams ran their strategies. Empire’s constant offensive trilanes were designed to create space for Funn1k to snowball by winning his lane and being able to farm both the lane and his jungle. This was how his Clinkz operated and how he became so beloved by the fans. In a similar fashion, Na`Vi would pool Dendi while dedicating their supports to securing runes for him as well as ganking his lane, with the famously sacrificial Dmitriy ‘LighTofHeaveN’ Kupriyanov paying the price.

      While playing on the same team, much of the reason for Dendi’s slow but steady fall out of the discussion about the best player in the world, the best mid in the world and even the best mid in Europe or CIS has been fueled by this conflict. Generally, only one player has been able to shine at a time, while the other plays a style or role that they are uncomfortable with. Of late, outside of occasional bursts of good play, neither has been playing to a level that they would have ever been considered for the Na`Vi jersey a few years back.

      The problem here is that the core trio are big names that Na`Vi has invested a lot into. From a marketing standpoint, no player in Dota is as valuable as Dendi is, at least for now. But the fanbase is quickly waning, at least when it comes to watching the team play. Even the prospect of seeing their favourite players clown around at The Summit 2 wasn’t enough to convince the ordinarily rabid CIS fanbase to vote for them. The value of Dendi is no longer in his contribution as a player, but as a personality. It might be a bitter pill to swallow, but if Na`Vi want to have a shot at reclaiming their place at the top of the CIS scene, they need to be willing to part ways even with their biggest star.


      VANSKOR, Goblak and XBOCT at StarLadder XI. Photo by SLTV.

      Where to start?

      I’ve left a name out of the discussion up until this point, and for a good reason. For all the memes surrounding him, Alexander ‘XBOCT’ Dashkevich is in reality the one star on the team that has been the most consistent about proving that he’s still one of the best players on his position within the CIS region. It’s rare to see him reach the level at which he played back during TI3, but of the core trio, he is the one who should be kept, no matter what other changes are made. He’s also the most recognizable face after Dendi, and will help to keep the sponsors from panicking completely.

      In addition, keeping VANSKOR may not be justified based on his performance since joining the team, but this has felt a lot more like the result of how the team worked, as opposed to the potential of VANSKOR. He has proven himself to be one of the greatest support players in the Western world over the past year, but the important factor to note is that when playing for Empire, he was allowed to be himself, to play oddball picks that suited him, because he was a star. Joining Na`Vi, he’s been shackled in the service of the old stars, and as a result he’s not been able to shine. Remove those shackles and make him the core around which the team is built, and you’ve got a much more promising future ahead.

      Now I may have intimated that both Dendi and Funn1k should go, but this isn’t necessarily the case. Na`Vi could take a chance on Dendi reclaiming his past glory - in the past few weeks, his play as Magnus has shown that he can still be a high impact player, even if it’s a very narrow proof. If Na`Vi were willing to take the risk and build around Dendi, they could get an initiator offlaner and run strategies centered around the mid lane once more. But this is clearly a risk, and one you need to talk any new players joining the squad into taking. It’s no longer as simple as Na`Vi picking whom they want and that player jumping at the opportunity to play for the greatest team in the CIS. Now, they have to present a convincing case, especially in order to attract talent from teams who are already on the brink of securing a spot at TI.

      In fact this might be Na`Vi’s last time they get to try and play the “three time finalists” card, and as such they should be looking to make a drastic change. If Dendi is gone, then that change begins with picking a new mid laner, one who works with XBOCT and VANSKOR. The midlaner is arguably the most difficult position to fill, with both Roman ‘Resolut1on’ Fominok and Alexander ‘DkPhobos’ Kucheria likely difficult to persuade to leave their respective teams (Empire and Polar). In the worst case, Na`Vi might have to consider putting Funn1k into the mid role, and then pick a more utility minded offlaner to compliment him. At any rate, the offlaner should follow from the needs of the mid player as well as XBOCT and VANSKOR.

      The last spot to fill will be that of Goblak, as while he undeniably has worth as a strategist, he needs a star cast around him in order to allow him to be that slightly weaker player without weighing the team down. If Na`Vi could assemble a new cast of such quality then they might considering allowing him to stay on, but if not they’d be better off moving him into a coaching role if possible. This vacancy is the most open, with names even such as recently on form Andrey ‘Dread’ Golubev being a great and likely available candidate.

      Had Na`Vi had the prescience to see this situation coming, the ideal outcome for them might have been once again going to Team Empire in order to buy themselves a new winning team. Prior to this weekend's run at StarLadder, it might have been conceivable to try and snatch away the young trio of Resolut1on as well as offlaner Maxim ‘yoky’ Kim and support player Ilya ‘ALOHADANCE’ Korobkin. Not only would this have been a potentially super strong lineup, but Na`Vi would have had four of the greatest young players from the CIS scene and could have secured a new dynasty around the already realized star power of VANSKOR and Resolut1on.

      In a paralell universe, that team might have been a strong contender at TI5. Such is life.


      Again, the point of this article was not to talk about rumours of what players Na`Vi might or might not get. The point was only to outline the situation Na`Vi finds themselves in, and what is at stake for the organization.


      Definitiv lohnenswert kann den Artikel nur empfehlen. Auch besser wenn wir die NaVi diskussion für invites etc. gleich auslagern

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Crytash ()

      'Maturity,' father had slowly begun,'
      Is knowing you're wrong and accepting it, son.
      There's prudence in pausing with patience and joy -
      And hearing the wisdom in others, my boy.
      'A person's perspective,' he said with a smile,
      'Is plain if you walk in their shoes for a while.
      And if you can do it - if maybe you do -
      You might understand, and agree that it's true.'
      I followed his reasons, and nodded, polite;
      Perhaps that was logic - perhaps he was right.
      Perhaps there was truth in his claim all along...
      'I'm twenty,' I countered: 'I'm right, and you're wrong.'
    • For all the memes surrounding him, Alexander ‘XBOCT’ Dashkevich is in reality the one star on the team that has been the most consistent about proving that he’s still one of the best players on his position within the CIS region.


      dafuq did i just read.
    • Ist nicht kein wirkliches Drama, eher eine Art Essay über die Zustände @ Qupe
      TL;DR Was macht NaVi wenn sie vielleicht nicht zum TI eingeladen werden und wie kam es dazu.
      'Maturity,' father had slowly begun,'
      Is knowing you're wrong and accepting it, son.
      There's prudence in pausing with patience and joy -
      And hearing the wisdom in others, my boy.
      'A person's perspective,' he said with a smile,
      'Is plain if you walk in their shoes for a while.
      And if you can do it - if maybe you do -
      You might understand, and agree that it's true.'
      I followed his reasons, and nodded, polite;
      Perhaps that was logic - perhaps he was right.
      Perhaps there was truth in his claim all along...
      'I'm twenty,' I countered: 'I'm right, and you're wrong.'

      Beitrag von hans ()

      Dieser Beitrag wurde gelöscht, Informationen über den Löschvorgang sind nicht verfügbar.
    • tl;dr

      Na'vi spielt schlecht im Moment und hat deswegen Probleme, einen TI5-Invite zu bekommen.
      Na'Vi besteht aus Altstars (Dendi, Funn1k, XBOCT) und wechselnden Supports. Dendi und Funn1k wollen beide den Playmaker spielen, ist einer zuviel. XBOCT ist fine. Wenn Dendi oder Funn1k gekickt werden würde, hätte Na'vi Probleme einen neuen Offlaner oder eine gute Mitte zu finden, die sich auf den Playmaker-Style einlässt, weil Na'Vi gerade schlecht spielt und gute Spieler bei besseren Teams spielen.
      Falls Na'Vi kein ordentliches Roster zusammenkriegt, wird auch die ganze Organisation schrumpfen, weil es kein wirkliches zweites Standbein gibt.

      :(
    • Bissl ausführlicheres tl;dr:

      Er ist der Meinung, dass sich Vanskor bei NaVi nicht entfalten kann, weil er im Schatten von den alten Stars agieren muss und ihr Spiel quasi "aufgezwungen" bekommt. Er meint dass es klug wäre sich von Dendi zu trennen (dunno, gibt es Argumente dafür und dagegen), will allerdings XBOCT ungedingt halten und ist der Meinung er ist der einzige der noch annähernd auf Toplevel spielt und immer noch ein verdienter Star ist (srsly? wollte kurz aufhören zu lesen und ihn nach seinen Drogen fragen).

      Meine Meinung:

      NaVi hätte damals nicht an XBOCT festhalten sollen, möglicherweise auch Dendi austauschen. Ppy und Kuro haben mehr als bewiesen, dass die schlechten Ergebnisse wohl definitiv nicht an ihnen lagen. Dendi spielt teilweise unterirdisch mittlerweile, sein unglaublicher Riecher fürs Spiel ist ihm irgendwie abhanden gekommen, aber ich denke, dass er sich durchaus aus dem Tief wieder herausziehen hätte können mit neuem Team. XBOCT war immer schon zwischen Genie und Wahnsinn unterwegs, sein "Decisionmaking" ist allerdings ne mittlere Katastophe inzwischen (siehe Starladder vs MVP zB). Auch wenn wohl kein Team ihren Carry so wenig protected wie NaVi, ist seine Zeit für mich abgelaufen.

      Was auch immer sich in nächster Zeit tun wird, sie brauchen Ergebnisse und das verdammt schnell. Wenn sie nicht relativ Zeitnahe bei größeren Turnieren wieder vorne mitspielen können, wird eine Einladung nach Seattle ausbleiben. Für den Qualifier sehe ich da ebenfalls Schwarz, denke nicht dass sie sich im Moment da durchsetzen könnten, bis dahin dauert es aber auch noch einige Zeit!
      Der Horizont der meisten Menschen ist ein Kreis mit dem Radius 0. Und das nennen sie ihren Standpunkt. ~Albert Einstein~
    • In dem Artikel wird so viel Unsinn verzapft, da weiss man echt garnicht wo man anfangen soll. Polar direct Invite to TI, Dendi der weak link, Konflikt zwischen Dendi und Funnik als "Stars" und "XVOST gar nicht mal so schlecht in letzter Zeit"? Ich will meine Lebenszeit zurück.

      Das NaVi in der derzeitigen Form definitiv keinen direct Invite für TI bekommen wird sollte jedem klar sein, der in letzter Zeit wenigstens ein bisschen die Szene verfolgt hat. Die einzigen westlichen Teams, die momentan nen direct Invite bekommen würden sind C9, EG und Secret, ganz vielleicht noch Fire. Wer was anderes behauptet labert Bullshit.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 2 mal editiert, zuletzt von teeza ()

    • Ich hab das eh nie verstanden warum sie damals als Funnik kam das nicht wenigstens ein paar mal wie das alte empire gespielt haben (Funnik safelane-bone, aggrotri und dendi halt was, was auch ohne gangks ganz passabel steht). In dem artikel beschwert er sich das es nicht gut ist zwei playmaker zu haben bzw das sie sich nicht entscheiden konnten wer es sein soll. ich denke aber eher das funik da nie ne wirkliche gelegenheit bekommen hatte.
      Byron - Attributmagier
      Der Korpothread

      Oster schrieb:

      Wenigstens shrodo denkt mit.





      "some games just feel so unthrowable until you suddenly lost"
    • Gut das hier anscheinend viele Pro Games gucken zZ. Xboct war der konstanteste und beste Spieler bei Na'vi im DAC Qualifier und bei Starladder. Ändert aber nix dran das der Artikel sonst eher mäh ist. Nur sollten die Leute, die immer noch nur auf Xboct bashen, mal Na'vi Games gucken.
    • Was bedeutet dass dann @marek, alle Kicken? komplett neues Team?
      'Maturity,' father had slowly begun,'
      Is knowing you're wrong and accepting it, son.
      There's prudence in pausing with patience and joy -
      And hearing the wisdom in others, my boy.
      'A person's perspective,' he said with a smile,
      'Is plain if you walk in their shoes for a while.
      And if you can do it - if maybe you do -
      You might understand, and agree that it's true.'
      I followed his reasons, and nodded, polite;
      Perhaps that was logic - perhaps he was right.
      Perhaps there was truth in his claim all along...
      'I'm twenty,' I countered: 'I'm right, and you're wrong.'
    • Würde Xboct schon behalten. Schaut euch einfach mal seine Stats an SL/DAC, falls man ihn nicht sah. Klar, auch er hat - sehr selten - Spiele in denen gar nichts läuft, wie im Slardar Spiel gegen MVP Phönix, aber alles in allem spielt er seit Wochen Dota auf einem sehr hohen Level. Kann man von anderen im Team derzeit nicht wirklich behaupten (bis auf Vanskor obv.).

      Man muss sich allerdings ebenso die Frage stellen, wie werden NaVi fans auf einen solchen Kahlschlag reagieren. Kann man überhaupt das ganze Team feuern, ohne dass halb CIS Amok läuft. Es gibt dort so viele Faktoren, die so schwer mit einzubeziehen sind... es fällt mir schwer eine Meinung zu bilden, die mir angenehm ist.

      Der Artikel ist natürlich in aller erster Linie ein gedankliches Sprungbrett, an dem wir unsere eigenen Gedanken abstoßen können.
      'Maturity,' father had slowly begun,'
      Is knowing you're wrong and accepting it, son.
      There's prudence in pausing with patience and joy -
      And hearing the wisdom in others, my boy.
      'A person's perspective,' he said with a smile,
      'Is plain if you walk in their shoes for a while.
      And if you can do it - if maybe you do -
      You might understand, and agree that it's true.'
      I followed his reasons, and nodded, polite;
      Perhaps that was logic - perhaps he was right.
      Perhaps there was truth in his claim all along...
      'I'm twenty,' I countered: 'I'm right, and you're wrong.'
    • Selber schuld wenn man dendi bis jetzt nicht gekickt hat weil le ebib SUPAMIDA domdo XD meme
      alle booten und secret signen y-d
      fand den artikel nicht gut tbh

      //edit: haben doch nen drama faden, warum bekommen t2 teams einen eigenen thread?

      Beitrag von NTTC ()

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