Seren schrieb:
lachhaft
Cirez_D schrieb:
Ohne jetzt die wirkliche Ahnung von SC2 zu haben (hab nur früher ab und an mal streams geschaut) braucht man dort denke ich weniger mapawareness, welche in dota allgemein und besonders bei streams ungeheuer wichtig ist.
) chrZ^ schrieb:
Cirez_D schrieb:
Ohne jetzt die wirkliche Ahnung von SC2 zu haben (hab nur früher ab und an mal streams geschaut) braucht man dort denke ich weniger mapawareness, welche in dota allgemein und besonders bei streams ungeheuer wichtig ist.
Drops, Counterattacks, Proxy-Gebäude etc
Seren schrieb:
1. der sinn von adblock liegt darin begründet ads zu blocken. dass damit kein geld mehr verdient wird ist logische konsequenz.
2. wieso sollte man sich spiele ohne kommentator ansehen wenn man sie mit kommentator ansehen kann?
3. wieso sollte valve nicht selbst eine solche funktion implementieren und selbst dran verdienen statt 3rd-party anbietern die profite ermöglichen?
4. warum sollte dendi 1800 € im monat bekommen wenn man ihm beim pub spielen zusehen kann? warum sollte ich wollen dass ownedtv daran geld verdient?
Wenn man sieht, dass man mit Dota 2 Geld verdienen kann, dann werden mehr Sponsoren aufspringen. Dadurch gäbe es mehr Geld und man könnte sich vielleicht komplett dem eSport widmen wie z.B. in Korea oder es in China der Fall gerade ist. Man kann von Dota 2 in Deutschland zumindest, nicht wirklich von leben.... Muss man das denn unbedingt wollen? Was habe ich persönlich davon, wenn die Spieler mehr Geld verdienen und Dota 2 wächst als jemand der ab und an nen paar doten spielt?matthe schrieb:
...
Cirez_D schrieb:
chrZ^ schrieb:
Cirez_D schrieb:
Ohne jetzt die wirkliche Ahnung von SC2 zu haben (hab nur früher ab und an mal streams geschaut) braucht man dort denke ich weniger mapawareness, welche in dota allgemein und besonders bei streams ungeheuer wichtig ist.
Drops, Counterattacks, Proxy-Gebäude etc
Irgendwie wusste ich das so ein Schwachsinn von dir oder tree kommt.
Cirez_D schrieb:
Muss man das denn unbedingt wollen? Was habe ich persönlich davon, wenn die Spieler mehr Geld verdienen und Dota 2 wächst als jemand der ab und an nen paar doten spielt?matthe schrieb:
...
Cirez_D schrieb:
Muss man das denn unbedingt wollen? Was habe ich persönlich davon, wenn die Spieler mehr Geld verdienen und Dota 2 wächst als jemand der ab und an nen paar doten spielt?
matthe schrieb:
Seren schrieb:
1. der sinn von adblock liegt darin begründet ads zu blocken. dass damit kein geld mehr verdient wird ist logische konsequenz.
Macht aber Dota 2 für neue Sponsoren unattraktiver und fördert das Spiel nicht.
dir ist schon bewusst dass starcraft das selbe problem hat? adblock geht im ganzen internet (protipp)
2. wieso sollte man sich spiele ohne kommentator ansehen wenn man sie mit kommentator ansehen kann?
Weil der Kommentator behindert sein könnte? Stream Quali scheiße ist? Man zu schlechtes Internet für HD Streams hat?
wieso sollte ich mir den stream anschauen wenn der kommentator behindert ist, die stream quali scheiße oder man zu schlechtes internet hat??????? ob ich den stream nicht sehe oder ihn nicht sehe scheint echt nen unterschied zu machen.
3. wieso sollte valve nicht selbst eine solche funktion implementieren und selbst dran verdienen statt 3rd-party anbietern die profite ermöglichen?
Zu viel Arbeit imo (logistisch, finanziell, etc.). Außerdem erfordern own3d, twitch nicht den Besitz von Dota 2
das ganze über valve statt über owned uz machen ändert also den logistischen aufwand. o_k
4. warum sollte dendi 1800 € im monat bekommen wenn man ihm beim pub spielen zusehen kann? warum sollte ich wollen dass ownedtv daran geld verdient?
Weil es Dota 2 fördern würde
Cirez_D schrieb:
Muss man das denn unbedingt wollen? Was habe ich persönlich davon, wenn die Spieler mehr Geld verdienen und Dota 2 wächst als jemand der ab und an nen paar doten spielt?matthe schrieb:
...
matthe schrieb:
Punkt 4: Es gibt auch Friseure, die sehr viel Geld durchs frisieren (keine Ahnung, ob es der richtig Ausdruck ist) erhalten. Auf Dota 2 bezogen: Es gibt eSports Titel, durch die man seinen Lebensunterhalt finanzieren kann! Die Frage ist, soll dies auch so in Dota 2 möglich werden? Wenn ja, dann muss bei Dota TV was getan werden.
Cirez_D schrieb:
Muss man das denn unbedingt wollen? Was habe ich persönlich davon, wenn die Spieler mehr Geld verdienen und Dota 2 wächst als jemand der ab und an nen paar doten spielt?matthe schrieb:
...
[Suggestion] In-game advertisement
The thread is meant to discuss about weather the features should be implemented or not and how it could/should be done.
Blizzard sadly missed the opportunity to implement “craft”TV three times in a row, its very nice too see that there are game developers out there which are able to do it right, its awesome that u are implementing dotaTV right from the beginning. Thats what a big eSports game need, an easy to access in-game broadcast system with low bandwidth use, HD resolution and maximum control of the camera view, without a doubt the best way to broadcast eSports to its many fans. But since I havent read anything about plans towards in-game advertisement I would like to point out how important it is. Most money in todays eSports comes from sponsors, their main, not to say only, goal is to advertise their brand/products. A goal far easier to score on an video stream then any known “ingame”TV, because of that fact I have seen leagues forbid any hlTV coverage and force every user to their shitty video stream with all its disadvantages for the fans.
A carefully thought out in-game advertisement system would guarantee the best possible exposure for the sponsors, make them happy and ensure larger/longer future cooperation between the leagues and sponsors. Although I have no accurate idea how it can be done, but I know it MUST be done and you are the one capable of finally doing it, for dota and eSports as a whole!
I had three ideas so far. Interface banner ads, map ground and/or signboard banner ads and banner ad short time pop ups in cooperation with google adsense or alike.
1. Interface banner ads
The main dota interface should leave some space for ad banners and give leagues the rights to implement the logos of their sponsors. Allowing animated .gifs would give the opportunity to cycle thru all sponsors. Ten to hundred thousands of viewers would see them 30-90min per match and make the sponsors happy.
2. Map ground and signboard banners
Map ground = ad on the map ground in some parts of the map
signboard banners = special signboard where banner ads can be placed
few examples from wc3 and sc2
warcraft.ingame.de/tips/orks/gfx/orc_kampfposition.jpg
i53.tinypic.com/eg67iu.jpg
i54.tinypic.com/15x5060.jpg
More difficult to implement then the interface version, but less intrusive if the banner itself is designed correctly. The question is, if every dota cup/league especially the smaller sized have the picture editing skills. The question is also which brand logos can be implemented properly, some might naturally fit better then other. The biggest disadvantage is the fact that this logos wont be seen during the most match time, since they cant be everywhere.
3. short time pop ups in cooperation with google adsense or alike
Such banners can be seen on youtube for example, they appear for short time and are not very intrusive, especially if they appear in predefined interface spots(similar to 1.). Main advantage would be the fact that this ads would appear idiomatically, giving small leagues or even single pro teams the opportunity to monetize their content. To accomplish such a cooparation valve themselves has to make a step forward and work out the contracts and technical ways to implement this ads (in the first place designed for homepages and videos)in game. Preferably valve should get all the ad money and then redistribute it to the leagues and players(depending on the views), that way even the smallest leagues and even usual progamer practice matches could be monetized. Valve could “sell” dota2 as a whole, making it far more attractive for all ad partners, allowing more beneficial contracts.
It might sound weird to put google adsense and alike ingame, but steam with tens of millions of user is a very attractive place for advertisers, why not use it and bring the eSports forward?
4. Video ads could be shown at the end of a match, halfscreen, while the viewers are cheking out the scoreboard. Less ideal, but still possible, videos also could be shown shortly after the pick phase, before the creep spawn. Less ideal because firstblood could happen during that time. This way we could have video ads and they wouldnt be too intrusive.
5.
cathead;17821 schrieb:
It's definitely a situation that must be considered carefully, but I think there are ways to make it work without getting in the way of the spectators too much. One idea could be making the "loading game" splash screen customizable, so organizers could put some kind of ad on that screen. I also liked the idea of having a MotD type of screen after you load in that you must click through, similar to what you would see on a TF2 server. Both ideas would be fairly unintrusive since you only see it when you load in, and wouldn't interfere with the game itself at all.
6.
In the “today” section could be a slot for an image. The hoster of the event should have the possibility to fill that slot with their logo, either league or/and sponsor.
How the views are counted is still an open question. But they need to be counted, since the hoster of the event need that information for the sponsors.
7.
Yarome;54828 schrieb:
Just a stray thought: it would be interesting if a player could have individual UI banners for perspective cam in replays, given that they aren't in a game with preexisting UI banners. This would give players an option to further capitalize on their fame, and possibly make sponsorship pay better. It could also theoretically be used for personal, non-advertisement purposes as well, of course.
8.
ads of any kind could be shown during game pauses, which happen in competetive dota in nearly every match.
issues
1. Video ads during a pause WOULD be very inrusive non the less
2. such ad space/time is harder to sell to advertisers, because its random, making it non ideal for all tournament hosters
Steam wide top live matches promotion
The thread is meant to discuss about weather the features should be implemented or not and how it could/should be done.
Every time the tens of millions of steam users start steam, they see this pop-up with new steam games adverts. I think it would be very great and important to promote ongoing dota2 matches thru this pop-ups. Yes I understand the reason valve is making this game adverts, they want to sell them and make money, obviously. Dota2 would take away part of this during the course of few top matches. To compensate this I wrote down an idea about ingame advertisement. I also made an topic about a dota2 spectator version, a version, free to use for spectating only, attracting more ppl to see top dota2 matches and maybe get hooked to it.
The main thought behind this idea is, the bigger the viewer number of top matches, the more viewers will be attracted to dota2 games in the future. Huge viewer numbers will make gamers talk about them in forums/chats/social media, fighting their fights, dota2>xyz, and so on. Huge viewer numbers will get the attention of esports/gaming homepages, make them write articles about this phenomenon, attracting more and most importantly different and new types of people. Causing a positive snowball effect. Making free but priceless marketing for dota2.
[Suggestion]Top live matches, upcomming matches calendar
The thread is meant to discuss about weather the features should be implemented or not and how it could/should be done.
Top live matches need more info, casters and their spoken language should be visible in the “today” section.
Upcoming Pro matches should be promoted somewhere and they should be promoted as offensive and visible as possible. The more ahead ppl can plan what matches they want to see when, the more of them will actually tune in. TV stations have schedules. I basically think there should be a calendar with match dates and times as precise as possible. Admins from the respective leagues should have limited rights to edit the match dates. To prevent any confusion with timezones there also should be a backwards running timer “start in HH:MM” for matches that start in less than 24h.
dota2 spectator version
The thread is meant to discuss about weather the features should be implemented or not and how it could/should be done.
Since its still not official(or did I miss somthig?) weather dota2 will be free or pay to play I would like to suggest a limited “dota2 spectator version”. A version that allow ppl to spectate dota2 pro matches without having the full game. Being a small game, part of the steam network and using the source engine makes dota2 very easy and fast to download, even for the slower internet connections.
The main thought behind this idea is, the bigger the viewer number of top matches, the more viewers will be attracted to dota2 games in the future. Huge viewer numbers will make gamers talk about them in forums/chats/social media, fighting their fights, dota2>xyz, and so on. Huge viewer numbers will get the attention of esports/gaming homepages, make them write articles about this phenomenon, attracting more and most importantly different and new types of people. Causing a positive snowball effect. Making free but priceless marketing for dota2.
anti spoiler replay feature
The thread is meant to discuss about weather the features should be implemented or not and how it could/should be done.
Most replay and vod databases in today’s esports spoiler the outcome of the matches to some degree, an annoying fact especially for hardcore fans, that type of fans where the most admins/proplayer/casters are bred. Since dota2 will most likely have only one database for all its esports content its very important to make THIS ONE spoiler free. Dota2 tournaments will happen all around the globe, many fans - hardcore or not - will not be able to watch the games live. Comparing to a live match a replay is somewhat of a drawback already, a replay of game u know the outcome of is even worse.
There are basicly two major spoiler issues, knowing the number of total games played in a bo3(e. g.) and the length of a given game. Knowing the number of games played + the outcome of the first game, always spoiler the winner of the 2nd game, in a 2:0 match, 50% the games are spoiled that way. Knowing the game length the outcomes of some fights are obvious even before they start, these fights are often times the deciding fights and by nature the most exciting of the whole game, in theory, not in practice, not if u know the outcome beforehand.
I want suggest a “anti-spoiler” option, which if enabled hide the number of games of a match and the game length of replays.
To hide the game length is an easy thing, just hide the duration ingame with an overlay and at the “watch/recent games” tab, in that tab all the other replay related data should be hid too, because they also spoiler the outcome of the game. Picks(not the whole hero details) should could be shown optionally, since they are relevant to rate the entertainment value of the game beforehand and do not reveal the outcome.
To hide the number of games is somewhat more difficult because it need a further filter improvement, the filter need an additional option to choose, “league/cup” info. I am not sure how this info could automatically be added to the played games, mby u have an idea, but if not, it shouldnt be big of a deal to let admins manually add it, there are plenty of good and dedicated cup admins and replay uploaders in dota1, there do it since years for many sites, granted the rights to do in for dota2 ingame replay database they surely would do it for dota2 also. With “anti-spoiler” option enabled and “league/cup” choosen, all replays are automatically sorted by start date/time.
e.g.
6th oct 2011 01:00 pm
NAVI vs MYM
EH vs NV
TR vs M5
[SIZE=5]+[/SIZE]
6th oct 2011 02:30 pm
NAVI vs MYM
EH vs NV
TR vs M5
[SIZE=5]+[/SIZE]
Info/explanation
[SIZE=5]+[/SIZE] The next button, after clicking it the next set of matches is visible, most likely the next cup round or the 2nd game of the match, since they are sorted by date/time.
The viewers see only the first set of matches (from 1pm in this example) and by clicking on the next button can reveal the next set of games(2:30pm in this example).
The main anti-spoiler effect comes from the next button, because there is automatically and always a next button even if the last visible set of games where already the last of the cup.
In this example, imagine it was a bo3, all games were 2:0, but thanks to the interface the viewer thinks there might be a 3rd game, that way he doesnt know the outcome of all 2nd games he is just about to watch and hopefully enjoy.
The games are grouped within +-20 min range, to catch most delayed games of a cup round, otherwise there would be too many next buttons to click to catch all games that started from 01:00pm to 01:20 pm, imagine a big cup, will be pretty annoying for the fans to press “next” 20 times to see all avaible round 1 games, which they need to see to be able to decide which of them they want to watch.
There also should be a check button “exclude watched” in the filter options, checked viewers should only have replay displayed they havent see yet, that way they not only can easialy keep track of which games of a cup are remaining, they also do not need to hit the “next” button 10 times to come to the final game. The “exclude watched” check button should be avaible regardless if the viwer has the “anti-spoiler” option enabled or not.
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